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Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387839)
Should help with all those traffic jams, too, if people can't afford cars.
See? You just have to think positively. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387839)
Should help with all those traffic jams, too, if people can't afford cars.
See? You just have to think positively. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by 007Steve
(Post 12387798)
... Can I please suggest some quiet reading...
UK economy faces 'longest fall in living standards in 60 years' - BBC News Then go to the IFS site & take in their data. It looks very grim indeed. Oh yes, and does anyone know where all those Clever B****** who've repeatedly told us this couldn't possibly happen :flypig: :flypig: have suddenly disappeared to...??? Now the DEPRESSION begins. Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries. Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise. This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products. This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 12387873)
...impoverished Europeans...
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Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 12387873)
Incomes are squeezed when there is a surplus of labour and employers do not need to compete for workers - the supply of labour exceeds the demand.
Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries. Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise. This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products. This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
(Post 12387851)
Yep I thinks that's probably right.
I tend to think that he Baby Boomers have broken the international system and that, therefore, the coming generation will be significantly poorer than the current generation and there are going to be some real tensions because of that fact. The future has been mortgaged and there doesn't appear to be a way out in sight. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 12387904)
Our adult children are in the same line of work as ourselves, their standards of living in many ways are lower than ours at the same age, it has nothing to do with Brexit.
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Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
(Post 12387873)
Incomes are squeezed when there is a surplus of labour and employers do not need to compete for workers - the supply of labour exceeds the demand.
Whilst the UK unemployment rate is low, the UK unemployed are no longer the reserve pool of labour for the UK employment market because it has been extended to include millions of keen and impoverished Europeans who cannot obtain work in their own countries. Once the historic rates of high net immigration the UK has experienced over the past 10+ years starts to subside after brexit, labour will start to gain bargaining power and living standards will rise. This will also have a positive impact on the UK's productivity and will incentivise investment in automation and in product substitution away from low value labour intensive products. This will take a few years to shake-out, both for government to finally control immigration and for business to get over the immediate uncertainty of brexit and start to invest. Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake. And "incentivise" isn't actually a word. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387910)
Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake.
And "incentivise" isn't actually a word. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Garbatellamike
(Post 12387908)
I agree 100% - it was this way before BREXIT - you could argue that BREXIT MIGHT exacerbate the issue somewhat but it is not the root cause .
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Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Shard
(Post 12387912)
Yes, far too simplistic. There is some wage compression in lower skilled employment (due to EU workers) but there are also skills gaps and 'willingness' gaps. And if wage inflation leads to greater automation, then there will be further economic drag through increased unemployment.
And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387918)
And industries can, and do, simply take or send their jobs elsewhere.
And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387910)
Too simplistic. The supply of labour is only one factor in a highly complex and manipulated economy. Things do not shake out - or even shake-out - quite as easily as you imagine. Or even at all. Interests are at stake.
And "incentivise" isn't actually a word. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...on/incentivize https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/incentivise https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...sh/incentivize Does this passive-aggressive pedantry make you feel better when posting on a forum? |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387918)
And industries can, and do, simply take or send their jobs elsewhere.
And that's without getting into tax structure, subsidies, international conglomerates, governmental and foreign policy infuences on industry, currency markets, price manipulation both to the consumer and on the raw goods coming from everywhere - the list goes on and on. A couple of million EU workers are barely a dot compared to all that. To suggest that opening the reserve pool of labour to tens of millions of poorer people from other countries has no impact on UK wages is bewildering blindness. |
Re: Post EU Referendum
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
(Post 12387913)
Take a patient in a weakened condition and rough him up a bit. That should help.
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