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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

la mancha Nov 20th 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12385705)
Portugal is receiving EU funds because it is in a fragile position and needs support. That's the same situation as in the 1970s and 80s when the EC allowed the sick man of Europe...

That was the EEC, not the mess it has now morphed into.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 12:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12385839)
No, I don't actually.

But as long as we're all clear that the EU and immigrants are to blame, then it's all good, right?

Far from good but I suspect the immigration issue is one of the main drivers of the current difficulty.

Lion in Winter Nov 20th 2017 12:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12385858)
Far from good but I suspect the immigration issue is one of the main drivers of the current difficulty.


If so, then the obvious thing to do is to cave in to the right, isn't it. After all, bigotry, racism and fascism are the fault of migrants fleeing miserable conditions nobody would want to live in.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 1:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12385879)
If so, then the obvious thing to do is to cave in to the right, isn't it. After all, bigotry, racism and fascism are the fault of migrants fleeing miserable conditions nobody would want to live in.

Not sure that's the obvious thing to do but theire are indeed far right followers out there who agree with you on that. Don't forget Merkel is right and welcomed all immigrants to Germany.

It is too simplistic to accuse all righties of being racist and indeed all lefties of being loonies. There are far right nut jobs out there and utter loonies on the extreme left but fortunately most people are more central in the spectrum.

Lion in Winter Nov 20th 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12385897)
Not sure that's the obvious thing to do but theire are indeed far right followers out there who agree with you on that. Don't forget Merkel is right and welcomed all immigrants to Germany.

It is too simplistic to accuse all righties of being racist and indeed all lefties of being loonies. There are far right nut jobs out there and utter loonies on the extreme left but fortunately most people are more central in the spectrum.


Why oh why oh why is the use of sarcasm no longer allowed after voting to leave the EU?

I should have added the :rolleyes:

Red Eric Nov 20th 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385853)
Good to see something positive. I would not like to see Portugal or any other nation fall again. It does no one any good, the people or the nation. As for the continuing contributions, I have nothing against helping Portugal or any other nation; my concern is the EU, not individual nations. Europe is changing but the EU goes on regardless.

I have concerns about the EU, too but I also think it does a great deal of good in instigating and facilitating positive changes. Improving conditions in countries which lag behind is of benefit to the entire union, directly or indirectly, over time.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385853)
As for keeping the contributions coming, I think that may be coming to an end. It will now be up to France and Germany to plug a massive gap in funding.

That depends on what decisions are taken about the shortfall, if there is one in this budget cycle in the end. Presumably there won't be one in the next cycle.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385853)
I see Macron’s popularity has fallen in record time as unemployment has risen, and Merkel could be on the way out or faced with the prospect of forming an undesirable coalition or another election.

No surprises there for me


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385853)
The irony is that it is France and Germany who are holding out for a bigger final contribution from the UK (or so I am informed).

I think you're well-informed. Some people seem to think it's Michel Barnier doing the holding out.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 1:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12385899)
Why oh why oh why is the use of sarcasm no longer allowed after voting to leave the EU?

I should have added the :rolleyes:

Not at all it was clearly meant sarcastically - I was simply using an old trick taught to me by a master debater on here - the being deliberately dense approach.

;)

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12385925)
I think you're well-informed. Some people seem to think it's Michel Barnier doing the holding out.

I agree with you both as I tend to believe that Barnier is operating under pretty strict terms of reference from the EU Council to whom he has to refer constantly hence the glacial pace of the non-negotiations.

The 2 major players in this are indeed France and Germany - the Germans are already the effective paymaster as the biggest contributor and are losing the 2nd biggest contributor so will want to extract every penny they can. France = CAP so likewise.

macliam Nov 20th 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12385938)
I agree with you both as I tend to believe that Barnier is operating under pretty strict terms of reference from the EU Council to whom he has to refer constantly hence the glacial pace of the non-negotiations.

The 2 major players in this are indeed France and Germany - the Germans are already the effective paymaster as the biggest contributor and are losing the 2nd biggest contributor so will want to extract every penny they can. France = CAP so likewise.

True, but there are 26 votes needed to agree any EU proposal - so minor players will hold out should it appear they will lose out and Ireland has already said it will veto any agreement whilst the approach to the border remains crossed fingers and sweet words.........

All this was obvious from the outset - the Uk has plenty of experience within the EU, so whingeing about the pace of negotations now is pointless.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 4:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12385999)
True, but there are 26 votes needed to agree any EU proposal - so minor players will hold out should it appear they will lose out and Ireland has already said it will veto any agreement whilst the approach to the border remains crossed fingers and sweet words.........

All this was obvious from the outset - the Uk has plenty of experience within the EU, so whingeing about the pace of negotations now is pointless.

indeed it will all be a last minute fudge - anyone expecting a different pace is naive in the extreme

007Steve Nov 20th 2017 4:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Originally Posted by Assanah http://britishexpats.com/forum/image...s/viewpost.gif
Portugal is receiving EU funds because it is in a fragile position and needs support. That's the same situation as in the 1970s and 80s when the EC allowed the sick man of Europe...
................................................

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385857)
That was the EEC, not the mess it has now morphed into.

................................................
The UK joined in '70s..... had to go cap-in-hand to Zurich Gnomes.... PM's car turned around from airport; screaming ad-dabs in City; 3 day week; who runs this Great Nation election....... :banghead: oh! :banghead: ouch! :banghead: OUCH!!!... aaaahhhhhhh, .... I'm bettter now. I have these Bad/ False memories sometimes.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 4:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12386029)
Originally Posted by Assanah http://britishexpats.com/forum/image...s/viewpost.gif
Portugal is receiving EU funds because it is in a fragile position and needs support. That's the same situation as in the 1970s and 80s when the EC allowed the sick man of Europe...
................................................

................................................
The UK joined in '70s..... had to go cap-in-hand to Zurich Gnomes.... PM's car turned around from airport; screaming ad-dabs in City; 3 day week; who runs this Great Nation election....... :banghead: oh! :banghead: ouch! :banghead: OUCH!!!... aaaahhhhhhh, .... I'm bettter now. I have these Bad/ False memories sometimes.

Yes tough days back then, it was a good job Mrs T came along else we'd still be the sick man of Europe...........

Red Eric Nov 20th 2017 4:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12386028)
indeed it will all be a last minute fudge - anyone expecting a different pace is naive in the extreme

Oh, I think it will go well beyond the last minute before the fudge is served.

Garbatellamike Nov 20th 2017 5:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12386050)
Oh, I think it will go well beyond the last minute before the fudge is served.

You will probably be proved right there Eric

mrken30 Nov 20th 2017 5:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
The first wave of jobs to move from London to the Netherlands.

https://news.sky.com/story/european-...shift-11136182


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