British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

la mancha Nov 19th 2017 12:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
In answer to GenieB’s post.

By the end of June 2017 there were 3181 more EU nationals working in the health service than in 2016.

Last week the ONS figures showed there was an increase of 112,000 EU nationals working in Britain.

The number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in Britain has gone up by a third in the last twelve months.

No one poached anyone from Portugal. If Portugal is booming they are free to return. No one is stopping them.

It is you who is ill-informed.

As for the pleasures of Morecambe, why don’t you live there?

Former Lancastrian Nov 19th 2017 12:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385218)
:goodpost:

An awful lot of talk on here is ill informed and frankly a very light covering for immigrant phobia,and a hankering for the supposedly 'good old days?
Granted ...if you come from the privileged middle and upper class echelons in the UK. You can be perhaps forgiven for worrying about the number of ethnicities that have invaded your protected corner of the country. (said it before,they were historically 'kept' in the poorer quarters and the middle and northern counties) It has driven an awful lot of you to vote Brexit under the false belief that that will settle all problems... It won't.
The UK has a deeper and more fundamental flaw. One that has been there for millenia The middle and upper class's despise and fear the lower orders. They therefore put in place a careful system of education that kept them out of their golden circle.It is no coincidence that the 9 most expensive public schools provide the majority of entrants to Oxbridge. That alumni from those schools are now 94 times more likely than the average Brit to reach the elite top positions in government and society.
. Britain without manufacturing, without wars, struggles to find jobs for those ill educated poor Before Brexit it was no problem. those positions were filled by immigrants ,hungry for work at any price,for low pay, and long hours.The unskilled Brit could have done them...but... well....:eek: Pride and tradition go a long way to explaining why not.
Those immigrants are now leaving in droves. Going back to countries of origin like Rumania, that is now booming.or to other countries that want them. Personally i sincerely hope the 350 nurses and doctors. 'poached' from the Algarve here in Portugal will also come back,now that this country is booming.

The NHS has just announced that it is now in a dire situation with an unprecedented loss of foreign doctors and nurses.Ditto the Business colleges and schools. The currant home grown talent coming in the future is largely the offspring of immigrants. especially Russian and Chinese, Known for their work ethic and talent .
If the UK is ever to succeed with this..to me... totally nut job ..Brexit plan.The Government will have to take a long hard look at their pre Brexit policies and educate the working class to the level of their own ..(Almost none of them send their kids to state schools.) Train them to be doctors,nurses, carers.Vocational education in other words. Jobs that have been totally neglected as being of no worth since before the war. I fear it won't happen. The Brexiteers want low tax,low regulation Britain. They are not interested in apprenticeships. or addressing the housing market for the young or the poor..
There's a great article in the times this weekend about Blackpool. The iconic seaside town, left to rot.. (unless they need it for its fabulous world class ballroom that is) Its an asset the Americans would have snapped up (Its an insult to call it the Las Vegas of the north) It could have had a world class casino...but the government put pay to that..It was the obvious place...perhaps not 'posh' enough for some though?. They preferred to allow fracking instead,,,:confused:
Now the B&B's are flats for those on the dole.the young driven out of the nearby cities because they can't afford the rents. The jobs are seasonal,nothing has been put in place to provide a steady income year round,
Like it's neighbour Morecambe it sits on the most wonderful piece of coastline. A place people would pay a fortune to live in almost any other EU country.. Not the UK though . It tells you everything you need to know about what a post Brexit world will be like :(


Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385240)
:lol::lol: No and NO... Morecambe has had a re-furb... They put up a statue to Eric Morcambe. Made some amazing pieces of sculptured lighting along the prom. Repaired the pier. and best of all,completely re-built the beautiful art deco hotel. It has the most amazing history. A long string of 40's and 50's film stars used to stay there when they were playing the numerous theatre along that coast. Its gorgeous and you can get a lovely afternoon tea there now.,or cocktail in the splendid bar. The little train station has also been smartened up and they hold Vintage rallies for anything from cars to tea dances. People looked up when Bill Bryson (American writer) visited when writing his book 'A small Island. He was astonished to see how neglected this beautiful place was. He described the view across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Mountains in the Lake District as the most beautiful in the UK.He then spent a lot of time there ,going across to walk in the Lakes.Could not understand why people weren't flocking there to invest and to live. Umm maybe because the powers that be refused to join Morecambe to the motorway system.wonder why that was?.

Blackpool doesn't have much in the way of American influence,which is odd given that it was built as a copy of Coney Island.Still got traditional fish,n,chips and Blackpool rock.Problem seems to be the town is owned by one family (The pleasure beach ) and the rest ? well could be crown estates ?. The lord Lieutenant of Lancashire made an appearance on Strictly from the Ballroom last night .. The Queens man in her county. (she is the Duke of Lancaster)

Do you raise a glass to the ' Duke ' at Christmas FL? as only Lancastrians can.

Im certainly proud to wear the proper Red Rose and not the one the England rugby team wears but never have raised a glass to the Duke and I have raised many a glass.
I admit the views over Morecambe Bay are spectacular but it was always going to finish 3rd behind Southport and Blackpool. Morecambe did get visitors but I think a number of them got lost looking for the Heysham ferry port:lol:
From what I can gather now Blackpool can be best described as a shit hole and a destination no longer just for the illuminations.
I will defend my county every time one of those Southern shandy drinking ponces mentions about how grim it is Oop North.

GeniB Nov 19th 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385245)
In answer to GenieB’s post.

By the end of June 2017 there were 3181 more EU nationals working in the health service than in 2016.

Last week the ONS figures showed there was an increase of 112,000 EU nationals working in Britain.

The number of Romanians and Bulgarians working in Britain has gone up by a third in the last twelve months.

No one poached anyone from Portugal. If Portugal is booming they are free to return. No one is stopping them.

It is you who is ill-informed.

As for the pleasures of Morecambe, why don’t you live there?

OUCH !!! You obviously know a LOT more about Portugal than I could ever know..As I only .live here. :sarcasm:
Your figures are wrong however (see this weekends FT...and no I cannot quote from that newspaper)
As to Morecambe. I would love to have lived there ..in the past... too late now. It would have made me angry in those days however to have witnessed the neglect.the disproportionate amount of tax money going to the South etc etc.. All academic now.
Calm down ..before you burst something :lol:

Bipat Nov 19th 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385235)
Historically they were.. but not in recent times

No the majority of those working now are as I said. Certainly more from EU than before but the majority working are from Non-EU. (Most will now be British citizens).

GeniB Nov 19th 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12385249)
Im certainly proud to wear the proper Red Rose and not the one the England rugby team wears but never have raised a glass to the Duke and I have raised many a glass.
I admit the views over Morecambe Bay are spectacular but it was always going to finish 3rd behind Southport and Blackpool. Morecambe did get visitors but I think a number of them got lost looking for the Heysham ferry port:lol:
From what I can gather now Blackpool can be best described as a shit hole and a destination no longer just for the illuminations.
I will defend my county every time one of those Southern shandy drinking ponces mentions about how grim it is Oop North.

:lol: Nah it has actually moved up a tad from ' Shit hole' If you watch Strictly Ballroom, this weekend there is extensive coverage. The trams have been renewed,the lights are still fabulous. The ballroom, has also been refurbished and is looking glorious. Unfortunately the shops have lost out to shopping malls. (the cause of many town centres demise) and of course being the most affordable rental place in the north .lt has attracted a lot of undesirables. It has a labour government now.Funnily enough it is quoted as one of the top four places in the country for rental returns ... Landlords must rejoice.Do they invest in the properties though ?
Poor Morecambe never did move on like the others.. Again I think because it was too difficult to get to.
We lived for 10 yrs in Ainsdale (part of which was built by a great uncle of mine) Loved it ,and Southport.Another gorgeous town that I am devastated to see is also going to wrack and ruin... what is wrong with people.!!!!

007Steve Nov 19th 2017 12:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Originally Posted by Cape Blue http://britishexpats.com/forum/image...s/viewpost.gif
Just the usual remainiac hate - I imagine UKIP Brexit loons posted similar ad-hominem photos in the past, you are in interesting company.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12384771)
I don't usually lower myself in that way - it was a reaction to your continual, childish and totally unjustified use of remoaner and remainiac.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.. You need to understand Jimenato, in Cape Blue’s stagnant little world nothing changes....
  • Britannia still rules the waves
  • Ambridge is a real place with a family called the Archers
  • Fish proudly display national flags wherever they are;- English Channel = Union Jack, then when they’re in the Bay of Biscay they re-scale themselves with a French or Spanish flag, and anything north of Scotland with Iceland’s
Since he’s shy and won’t tell anyone his expat location, we can only guess how he gets on with his neighbours; - but I’d be surprised if he’s ever actually been south of Uttoxeter. Only his ego matters.

macliam Nov 19th 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12385227)
Landlords are not "greedy", they merely sell their wares at the market rate, just like employers buy their labour at the market rate

The equivalent of "we were only following orders" or "If I don't exploit them, someone else will". The truth is that, unlike in other countrries, there is no social consicience in renting accommodation as a business, it is just a "get rich quick" scheme....... and before you demur, let's note the huge distortion in the housing market caused by "buy to let" and the huge reported drop in such mortgages now that the "rewards" of renting have been constrained a little. As for employers paying "the market rate", well 'twas ever thus, hence the rise of the Trade Unions - who sets the rate, the workers or the employers?

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385245)
No one poached anyone from Portugal. If Portugal is booming they are free to return. No one is stopping them.

Maybe you have a different word for organized roadshows lauding the higher pay and better conditions in the UK and handbills given to nurses coming off shift from hospitals? What would you call it if it was done in the UK? A brain drain, wasn't it? When I was in hospital in the UK lately, my Portuguese nurse told me that 5 of her friends had gone home and nobody new had arrived ..... She loved her job, but her partner was also Portuguese and if it got too tough for them in the UK they'd move elsewhere......

la mancha Nov 19th 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385251)
OUCH !!! You obviously know a LOT more about Portugal than I could ever know..As I only .live here. :sarcasm:
Your figures are wrong however (see this weekends FT...and no I cannot quote from that newspaper)
As to Morecambe. I would love to have lived there ..in the past... too late now. It would have made me angry in those days however to have witnessed the neglect.the disproportionate amount of tax money going to the South etc etc.. All academic now.
Calm down ..before you burst something :lol:

Here we go again: calm down before I burst something etc. etc…this from a poster who posted two very angry and long moaning tirades in your last two very lengthy posts. It is you who needs to calm down.

As for your reason for not living in Morecambe, don’t you think others have similar reasons?

Re Portugal, I don’t know much about the country other than they are always holding out their hands for EU money, but if as you say it is booming then so be it. Good luck with Portugal. I hope you are very happy there. I just wonder what makes you so angry with Britain today when you live in Portugal, because reading through your posts you don’t seem very happy.

And my figures come from respected sources, such as the ONS. If they are wrong then I will be happy to retract them if you show me where they are wrong. Then again, if you don’t believe them then so be it.

007Steve Nov 19th 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385257)
........ We lived for 10 yrs in Ainsdale (part of which was built by a great uncle of mine) Loved it ,and Southport.Another gorgeous town that I am devastated to see is also going to wrack and ruin... what is wrong with people.!!!!

..... It's because it's part of a purposely divided little island full of increasingly backward people;- re-read some of the posts here.....:sad_smile:

la mancha Nov 19th 2017 12:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12385267)
Maybe you have a different word for organized roadshows lauding the higher pay and better conditions in the UK and handbills given to nurses coming off shift from hospitals? What would you call it if it was done in the UK? A brain drain, wasn't it? When I was in hospital in the UK lately, my Portuguese nurse told me that 5 of her friends had gone home and nobody new had arrived ..... She loved her job, but her partner was also Portuguese and if it got too tough for them in the UK they'd move elsewhere......

They did not have to come but I am happy for them they have returned to booming Portugal where life is so much sweeter.

macliam Nov 19th 2017 12:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12385227)
Landlords are not "greedy", they merely sell their wares at the market rate, just like employers buy their labour at the market rate

The equivalent of "we were only following orders" or "If I don't exploit them, someone else will". The truth is that, unlike in other countrries, there is no social consicience in renting accommodation as a business, it is just a "get rich quick" scheme....... and before you demur, let's note the huge distortion in the housing market caused by "buy to let" and the huge reported drop in such mortgages now that the "rewards" of renting have been constrained a little. As for employers paying "the market rate", well 'twas ever thus, hence the rise of the Trade Unions - who sets the rate, the workers or the employers?

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385245)
No one poached anyone from Portugal.

Maybe you have a different word for organized roadshows lauding the higher pay and better conditions in the UK and handbills given to nurses coming off shift from hospitals? What would you call it if it was done in the UK? A brain drain, wasn't it? When I was in hospital in the UK lately, my Portuguese nurse told me that 5 of her friends had gone home and nobody new had arrived ..... She loved her job, but her partner was also Portuguese and if it got too tough for them in the UK they'd move elsewhere......

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385245)
If Portugal is booming they are free to return. No one is stopping them.

.... and finally, we revert to the old Tebbit suggestion....... get on your bike.

You ignore the many reports which predict a crisis in the NHS because the current uncertainty is causing EU nurses not to renew their contracts and the fact that non-EU replacements rarely have comparable qualifications and skills.

macliam Nov 19th 2017 1:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12385275)
They did not have to come but I am happy for them they have returned to booming Portugal where life is so much sweeter.

Careful with your tongue, you might cut yourself... such empathy!! However, they did not return to Portugal because "life is so much sweeter", they left because of uncertainty for their future in the UK and increasing abuse from certain people who seem to think that Brexit excuses them for attacking anyone they perceive as "different".

My nurse was an experienced graduate who spoke almost perfect English and was highly regarded by both other patents and her colleagues. Good luck finding a replacement any time soon......

Former Lancastrian Nov 19th 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Now to let some fireworks off from a neutral who is no longer living in the UK so has no horse in this race.
Until the people born in the 30's, 40's 50's, 60's etc die off there will be those who want out of the EU for a variety of reasons as they think the EU has ruined the country. Those who are 30 or younger and a few older than that think the EU is great and BREXIT is wrong again for a variety of reasons.

If you look back over the UK's history with the EU over the last 50 plus years you might see some things as to why there is some distrust about the EU as it is today.
1963 - Britain’s first attempt to join the Common Market was vetoed by Charles de Gaulle, who was said to be worried about English taking over as Europe’s main language.
1973 - Britain was finally allowed into European Economic Community under Conservative Prime Minister Edward Heath, but within a year the nation called for major changes to the Common Agricultural Policy, “fairer methods of financing the budget” and solutions to monetary problems.
1975 - Two years after Britain joined, it was already leaning towards the exit. A referendum over EEC membership split Harold Wilson’s Labour government, but the public endorsed the UK's continued membership, with 67% of people voting to stay in.
1983 - Labour's manifesto under leader Michael Foot promised withdrawal from the EEC, after the pro-Europe wing of the party had split off to form the SDP.
1984 - The UK won its famous “rebate” from Brussels in 1984, after Margaret Thatcher threatened to halt payments.

NOTE the EU as it is known as now didn't formerly exist until November 1993 and at that time there was only 12 countries.

Fast forward to today there are now 28 countries so it can be argued that it was not initially what the UK signed up to and with the addition of certain countries later on that it what fuelled the larger numbers of immigration under the freedom of movement.. More countries are looking to join the EU such as Turkey, Albania, Serbia and Macedonia.

I agree global trade is very important but notice the Americas don't set up like the EU. Hell NAFTA has only 3 members and look at the problems they have.
Bi Lateral deals can be done with any country which is what Canada does and allows certain movement of people between countries but its not wide open freedom of movement.
Im not suggesting this is the best way but many feel that the current EU isn't working hence the leave vote winning be it based on falsehoods or fake news.

So carry on argue your points for and against and I will sit back and observe:lol:

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 1:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12385260)
Originally Posted by Cape Blue http://britishexpats.com/forum/image...s/viewpost.gif
Just the usual remainiac hate - I imagine UKIP Brexit loons posted similar ad-hominem photos in the past, you are in interesting company.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
.. You need to understand Jimenato, in Cape Blue’s stagnant little world nothing changes....
  • Britannia still rules the waves
  • Ambridge is a real place with a family called the Archers
  • Fish proudly display national flags wherever they are;- English Channel = Union Jack, then when they’re in the Bay of Biscay they re-scale themselves with a French or Spanish flag, and anything north of Scotland with Iceland’s
Since he’s shy and won’t tell anyone his expat location, we can only guess how he gets on with his neighbours; - but I’d be surprised if he’s ever actually been south of Uttoxeter. Only his ego matters.

As usual, it is a remainiac talking about Britannia ruling the waves.

Ambridge isn't a documentary?

I'm not sure what your fish diatribe is meant to signify.

I used to live and work in the USA and in Spain, I have worked in 17 countries and traveled in more than I can remember. My neighbours are all transient foreigners so I don't really know them.

There is no ego involved in discussion the pros and cons of the EU and Brexit, apart from that of the remainiacs and extreme brexiters who seem to garner some ego from spouting their hate and abuse.

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12385301)
Now to let some fireworks off from a neutral who is no longer living in the UK so has no horse in this race.
Until the people born in the 30's, 40's 50's, 60's etc die off there will be those who want out of the EU for a variety of reasons as they think the EU has ruined the country. Those who are 30 or younger and a few older than that think the EU is great and BREXIT is wrong again for a variety of reasons.

If you look back over the UK's history with the EU over the last 50 plus years you might see some things as to why there is some distrust about the EU as it is today.
1963 - Britain’s first attempt to join the Common Market was vetoed by Charles de Gaulle, who was said to be worried about English taking over as Europe’s main language.
1973 - Britain was finally allowed into European Economic Community under Conservative Prime Minister Edward Heath, but within a year the nation called for major changes to the Common Agricultural Policy, “fairer methods of financing the budget” and solutions to monetary problems.
1975 - Two years after Britain joined, it was already leaning towards the exit. A referendum over EEC membership split Harold Wilson’s Labour government, but the public endorsed the UK's continued membership, with 67% of people voting to stay in.
1983 - Labour's manifesto under leader Michael Foot promised withdrawal from the EEC, after the pro-Europe wing of the party had split off to form the SDP.
1984 - The UK won its famous “rebate” from Brussels in 1984, after Margaret Thatcher threatened to halt payments.

NOTE the EU as it is known as now didn't formerly exist until November 1993 and at that time there was only 12 countries.

Fast forward to today there are now 28 countries so it can be argued that it was not initially what the UK signed up to and with the addition of certain countries later on that it what fuelled the larger numbers of immigration under the freedom of movement.. More countries are looking to join the EU such as Turkey, Albania, Serbia and Macedonia.

I agree global trade is very important but notice the Americas don't set up like the EU. Hell NAFTA has only 3 members and look at the problems they have.
Bi Lateral deals can be done with any country which is what Canada does and allows certain movement of people between countries but its not wide open freedom of movement.
Im not suggesting this is the best way but many feel that the current EU isn't working hence the leave vote winning be it based on falsehoods or fake news.

So carry on argue your points for and against and I will sit back and observe:lol:

I think your age splits are a little exaggerated in how they look - 40% of 25-34 yr-olds voted to leave and 45% of 35-44 yr-olds.

Generally, as people garner more experience and wisdom with age their opinions mature and become more nuanced - current naive young remainers could easily grow into becoming more-considered leavers. :lol:


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