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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Nov 18th 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12384957)
Ah but a man who has seen many cathedrals has seen very little but a man who has seen one cathedral many times has seen something.

And people have the cheek to complain about repetitive posting on this thread :lol:

Garbatellamike Nov 18th 2017 8:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12384986)
And people have the cheek to complain about repetitive posting on this thread :lol:

I know, any way can't stop now, off to visit a cathedral;)

DaveLovesDee Nov 18th 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12384984)

While drinking an Australian beer.....


Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12384985)
Reducing welfare to the absolute minimum necessary to prevent people starving might yield a short term windfall but it would soon be outweighed by the detrimental effects on the economy as a whole.

And the health problems.


Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12384998)
I know, any way can't stop now, off to visit a cathedral;)

https://s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.co...y_mix_pr_1.jpg

007Steve Nov 19th 2017 8:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
:amen: to that EMR.... in fact double:amen:
Next week it'll be Spain, either over Catelonia or Gibraltar, then probably Germany when they won't move the exit process on; - and then of course (hopefully before Christmas) France - well, it wouldn't be right if Murdoch's men didn't throw a few insults that way!
You know, I'm just waiting for Macron to say he's ending the two-state agreement for border controls at Calais..... Buy ear-muffs for that one

007Steve Nov 19th 2017 8:25 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
.

GeniB Nov 19th 2017 10:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12384752)
Dear Bipat, it is repetitive I know but since you seem to ignore everything that doesn't fit your narrow-minded view of the countries with cathedrals I say it again: there is a country with lots of cathedrals that is a enthusiastic member of the EU and is also trading globally on a massive scale. In other words ( in many times repeated words) there is nothing that prevents the UK from doing the same. There is not one reason why you have to ditch your close relationship to your neighbours and kindred cultures to engage with the world and to participate in economic and cultural growth of the wider world. There is also nothing that points to Europe being the past. It is still very much creative, daring and inventive. One of these things is the development of the EU a massive peace process that allowed the sick man of Europe to join and to develop towards the future. I would suggest that India might take a deeper look maybe one day even India will be able to live in peace and friendship with it's neighbors. That's the only future worth creating

:goodpost:

An awful lot of talk on here is ill informed and frankly a very light covering for immigrant phobia,and a hankering for the supposedly 'good old days?
Granted ...if you come from the privileged middle and upper class echelons in the UK. You can be perhaps forgiven for worrying about the number of ethnicities that have invaded your protected corner of the country. (said it before,they were historically 'kept' in the poorer quarters and the middle and northern counties) It has driven an awful lot of you to vote Brexit under the false belief that that will settle all problems... It won't.
The UK has a deeper and more fundamental flaw. One that has been there for millenia The middle and upper class's despise and fear the lower orders. They therefore put in place a careful system of education that kept them out of their golden circle.It is no coincidence that the 9 most expensive public schools provide the majority of entrants to Oxbridge. That alumni from those schools are now 94 times more likely than the average Brit to reach the elite top positions in government and society.
. Britain without manufacturing, without wars, struggles to find jobs for those ill educated poor Before Brexit it was no problem. those positions were filled by immigrants ,hungry for work at any price,for low pay, and long hours.The unskilled Brit could have done them...but... well....:eek: Pride and tradition go a long way to explaining why not.
Those immigrants are now leaving in droves. Going back to countries of origin like Rumania, that is now booming.or to other countries that want them. Personally i sincerely hope the 350 nurses and doctors. 'poached' from the Algarve here in Portugal will also come back,now that this country is booming.

The NHS has just announced that it is now in a dire situation with an unprecedented loss of foreign doctors and nurses.Ditto the Business colleges and schools. The currant home grown talent coming in the future is largely the offspring of immigrants. especially Russian and Chinese, Known for their work ethic and talent .
If the UK is ever to succeed with this..to me... totally nut job ..Brexit plan.The Government will have to take a long hard look at their pre Brexit policies and educate the working class to the level of their own ..(Almost none of them send their kids to state schools.) Train them to be doctors,nurses, carers.Vocational education in other words. Jobs that have been totally neglected as being of no worth since before the war. I fear it won't happen. The Brexiteers want low tax,low regulation Britain. They are not interested in apprenticeships. or addressing the housing market for the young or the poor..
There's a great article in the times this weekend about Blackpool. The iconic seaside town, left to rot.. (unless they need it for its fabulous world class ballroom that is) Its an asset the Americans would have snapped up (Its an insult to call it the Las Vegas of the north) It could have had a world class casino...but the government put pay to that..It was the obvious place...perhaps not 'posh' enough for some though?. They preferred to allow fracking instead,,,:confused:
Now the B&B's are flats for those on the dole.the young driven out of the nearby cities because they can't afford the rents. The jobs are seasonal,nothing has been put in place to provide a steady income year round,
Like it's neighbour Morecambe it sits on the most wonderful piece of coastline. A place people would pay a fortune to live in almost any other EU country.. Not the UK though . It tells you everything you need to know about what a post Brexit world will be like :(

007Steve Nov 19th 2017 11:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
QUOTE=Cape Blue;12384925]Certainly contempt - I had the same reaction to the extreme brexiters before the referendum, but not gloating - how can I gloat when I am a remain voter?

"People like you play with others lives and their kids futures" - you mean some people voted differently than you and you now have a petulant fit about it?[/QUOTE]
........
You've mixed up your forums AGAIN Cape Blue. Try googling EDL or KKK and you'll see the stuff that caters for your ...... peculiar interests.

Bipat Nov 19th 2017 11:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385218)
:goodpost:

An awful lot of talk on here is ill informed and frankly a very light covering for immigrant phobia,and a hankering for the supposedly 'good old days?
Granted ...if you come from the privileged middle and upper class echelons in the UK. You can be perhaps forgiven for worrying about the number of ethnicities that have invaded your protected corner of the country. (said it before,they were historically 'kept' in the poorer quarters and the middle and northern counties) It has driven an awful lot of you to vote Brexit under the false belief that that will settle all problems... It won't.
The UK has a deeper and more fundamental flaw. One that has been there for millenia The middle and upper class's despise and fear the lower orders. They therefore put in place a careful system of education that kept them out of their golden circle.It is no coincidence that the 9 most expensive public schools provide the majority of entrants to Oxbridge. That alumni from those schools are now 94 times more likely than the average Brit to reach the elite top positions in government and society.
. Britain without manufacturing, without wars, struggles to find jobs for those ill educated poor Before Brexit it was no problem. those positions were filled by immigrants ,hungry for work at any price,for low pay, and long hours.The unskilled Brit could have done them...but... well....:eek: Pride and tradition go a long way to explaining why not.
Those immigrants are now leaving in droves. Going back to countries of origin like Rumania, that is now booming.or to other countries that want them. Personally i sincerely hope the 350 nurses and doctors. 'poached' from the Algarve here in Portugal will also come back,now that this country is booming.

The NHS has just announced that it is now in a dire situation with an unprecedented loss of foreign doctors and nurses.Ditto the Business colleges and schools. The currant home grown talent coming in the future is largely the offspring of immigrants. especially Russian and Chinese, Known for their work ethic and talent .
If the UK is ever to succeed with this..to me... totally nut job ..Brexit plan.The Government will have to take a long hard look at their pre Brexit policies and educate the working class to the level of their own ..(Almost none of them send their kids to state schools.) Train them to be doctors,nurses, carers.Vocational education in other words. Jobs that have been totally neglected as being of no worth since before the war. I fear it won't happen. The Brexiteers want low tax,low regulation Britain. They are not interested in apprenticeships. or addressing the housing market for the young or the poor..
There's a great article in the times this weekend about Blackpool. The iconic seaside town, left to rot.. (unless they need it for its fabulous world class ballroom that is) Its an asset the Americans would have snapped up (Its an insult to call it the Las Vegas of the north) It could have had a world class casino...but the government put pay to that..It was the obvious place...perhaps not 'posh' enough for some though?. They preferred to allow fracking instead,,,:confused:
Now the B&B's are flats for those on the dole.the young driven out of the nearby cities because they can't afford the rents. The jobs are seasonal,nothing has been put in place to provide a steady income year round,
Like it's neighbour Morecambe it sits on the most wonderful piece of coastline. A place people would pay a fortune to live in almost any other EU country.. Not the UK though . It tells you everything you need to know about what a post Brexit world will be like :(

Just one point in answer to your post. Most 'Foreign' NHS workers are from Non-EU countries, and many of their British born children follow parents into the same jobs!

Former Lancastrian Nov 19th 2017 11:16 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385218)
:goodpost:


There's a great article in the times this weekend about Blackpool. The iconic seaside town, left to rot.. (unless they need it for its fabulous world class ballroom that is) Its an asset the Americans would have snapped up (Its an insult to call it the Las Vegas of the north) It could have had a world class casino...but the government put pay to that..It was the obvious place...perhaps not 'posh' enough for some though?. They preferred to allow fracking instead,,,:confused:
Now the B&B's are flats for those on the dole.the young driven out of the nearby cities because they can't afford the rents. The jobs are seasonal,nothing has been put in place to provide a steady income year round,
Like it's neighbour Morecambe it sits on the most wonderful piece of coastline. A place people would pay a fortune to live in almost any other EU country.. Not the UK though . It tells you everything you need to know about what a post Brexit world will be like :(

Oh the good old days of walking along Blackpool prom eating fish and chips from newspaper wrapping or eating candy floss or breaking your teeth on a stick of rock.
Now I guess you can now do the same walk eating a tikka masala or kebab and then swishing it down with a Starbucks Salted Caramel Mocha Light Frappuccino® Blended Beverage or something similar.

Bloody foreigners I bet they have even got rid of the donkey's.
And as for Morecambe do they still stand up dead people in the bus shelters to make it look like people live there?

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 11:18 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12384970)
It seems there are UK billionaires profiting from EU subsidies more than Polish farmers.

The difference being the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget whereas Poland, Spain etc are net takers.

The EU will never properly address the wastage of the CAP. Never.


The United States of America has mostly worked out okay for the last 341 years. The individual states have great control of much of the laws, rules and regulations.
Aside from a substantial civil ware 150 years ago. Of course the USA is a good place and the interaction between Feds and States generally rubs along OK, the issue is whether you want the UK to be a mere state under a Brussels-led Federal.


I'm a working class renter, and and I voted Remain.
Your priorities may have been different than others in the same position.


As for wage suppression, you mentioned in a previous post about employers paying the market rate. The industry I work in is licensed and regulated by the Home Office, licensing which was supposed to improve the pay rates by making us more professional and accountable. Yet I'm still being paid the same rate as we were getting 10 years ago. Yet my (local authority housing costs have risen 10%+ in those 10 years. The private rental market has probably increased by at least double that due mostly to greedy landlords and letting agents. Housing benefit doesn't even cover the full cost of some of these private rentals.

Employers will often pay the lowest rate possible within their industry when they provide a service to a 3rd-party client, because unless you're at the top end of the services market, clients usually want the cheapest service available. Supplying security staff to venues means there's always someone else willing to charge a few pence per contract hour less to win a contract.
Employers can pay their staff less because they do not have to compete for staff. The UK's unemployment rate is historically low which would normally drive increases in wages, but because we have extended the reserve pool of labour to include million of keen and impoverished Europeans there is no difficulty sourcing staff and no upwards pressure on wages.

This is basic supply and demand economics, your wages will never rise when there is a surplus of workers sitting on the subs bench waiting to join the game.

Landlords are not "greedy", they merely sell their wares at the market rate, just like employers buy their labour at the market rate, the issue is that high net immigration of working-age individuals means that the market rate for both is unattractive to native Brits.

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 11:20 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12384984)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that, if anything.

GeniB Nov 19th 2017 11:33 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12385222)
Just one point in answer to your post. Most 'Foreign' NHS workers are from Non-EU countries, and many of their British born children follow parents into the same jobs!

Historically they were.. but not in recent times

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 11:36 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12385218)
:goodpost:

An awful lot of talk on here is ill informed and frankly a very light covering for immigrant phobia,and a hankering for the supposedly 'good old days?
Granted ...if you come from the privileged middle and upper class echelons in the UK. You can be perhaps forgiven for worrying about the number of ethnicities that have invaded your protected corner of the country. (said it before,they were historically 'kept' in the poorer quarters and the middle and northern counties) It has driven an awful lot of you to vote Brexit under the false belief that that will settle all problems... It won't.
The UK has a deeper and more fundamental flaw. One that has been there for millenia The middle and upper class's despise and fear the lower orders. They therefore put in place a careful system of education that kept them out of their golden circle.It is no coincidence that the 9 most expensive public schools provide the majority of entrants to Oxbridge. That alumni from those schools are now 94 times more likely than the average Brit to reach the elite top positions in government and society.
. Britain without manufacturing, without wars, struggles to find jobs for those ill educated poor Before Brexit it was no problem. those positions were filled by immigrants ,hungry for work at any price,for low pay, and long hours.The unskilled Brit could have done them...but... well....:eek: Pride and tradition go a long way to explaining why not.
Those immigrants are now leaving in droves. Going back to countries of origin like Rumania, that is now booming.or to other countries that want them. Personally i sincerely hope the 350 nurses and doctors. 'poached' from the Algarve here in Portugal will also come back,now that this country is booming.

The NHS has just announced that it is now in a dire situation with an unprecedented loss of foreign doctors and nurses.Ditto the Business colleges and schools. The currant home grown talent coming in the future is largely the offspring of immigrants. especially Russian and Chinese, Known for their work ethic and talent .
If the UK is ever to succeed with this..to me... totally nut job ..Brexit plan.The Government will have to take a long hard look at their pre Brexit policies and educate the working class to the level of their own ..(Almost none of them send their kids to state schools.) Train them to be doctors,nurses, carers.Vocational education in other words. Jobs that have been totally neglected as being of no worth since before the war. I fear it won't happen. The Brexiteers want low tax,low regulation Britain. They are not interested in apprenticeships. or addressing the housing market for the young or the poor..
There's a great article in the times this weekend about Blackpool. The iconic seaside town, left to rot.. (unless they need it for its fabulous world class ballroom that is) Its an asset the Americans would have snapped up (Its an insult to call it the Las Vegas of the north) It could have had a world class casino...but the government put pay to that..It was the obvious place...perhaps not 'posh' enough for some though?. They preferred to allow fracking instead,,,:confused:
Now the B&B's are flats for those on the dole.the young driven out of the nearby cities because they can't afford the rents. The jobs are seasonal,nothing has been put in place to provide a steady income year round,
Like it's neighbour Morecambe it sits on the most wonderful piece of coastline. A place people would pay a fortune to live in almost any other EU country.. Not the UK though . It tells you everything you need to know about what a post Brexit world will be like :(

(1). The number attending University have increased from around 8% 30 years ago to over 30% today - the lower orders have more chances now than ever before. Why would a company put an apprenticeship in-place when they can just import someone already trained from Europe?

(2). Controlled immigration is not "immigrant phobia"

(3). Yes - the immigrants would work for low wages - which ensured those wages stayed low.

(4). Brexiters have addressed the housing market - they are reducing the demand-side for accommodation by trying to reduce the UK's high net immigration.

(5). How did the Gov "put pay" to North Vegas?

(6). You suggest that migrants are leaving in their droves, yet the most recent ONS data on post-referendum flows still showed around 250,000 net inwards migration?

(7). The coastline is a poor cousin to the thousands of miles of sunny coastline in southern Europe.

(8). I see little hankering for the good old days/colonialism/desire for Empire from the brexit voters, the only time I see it mentioned is by remainers when trying to insult those who have a different opinion than them.

Cape Blue Nov 19th 2017 11:38 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 


Originally Posted by 007Steve (Post 12385219)
QUOTE=Cape Blue;12384925]Certainly contempt - I had the same reaction to the extreme brexiters before the referendum, but not gloating - how can I gloat when I am a remain voter?

"People like you play with others lives and their kids futures" - you mean some people voted differently than you and you now have a petulant fit about it?

........
You've mixed up your forums AGAIN Cape Blue. Try googling EDL or KKK and you'll see the stuff that caters for your ...... peculiar interests.
You prove my point time and time again.

GeniB Nov 19th 2017 11:48 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12385225)
Oh the good old days of walking along Blackpool prom eating fish and chips from newspaper wrapping or eating candy floss or breaking your teeth on a stick of rock.
Now I guess you can now do the same walk eating a tikka masala or kebab and then swishing it down with a Starbucks Salted Caramel Mocha Light Frappuccino® Blended Beverage or something similar.

Bloody foreigners I bet they have even got rid of the donkey's.
And as for Morecambe do they still stand up dead people in the bus shelters to make it look like people live there?

:lol::lol: No and NO... Morecambe has had a re-furb... They put up a statue to Eric Morcambe. Made some amazing pieces of sculptured lighting along the prom. Repaired the pier. and best of all,completely re-built the beautiful art deco hotel. It has the most amazing history. A long string of 40's and 50's film stars used to stay there when they were playing the numerous theatre along that coast. Its gorgeous and you can get a lovely afternoon tea there now.,or cocktail in the splendid bar. The little train station has also been smartened up and they hold Vintage rallies for anything from cars to tea dances. People looked up when Bill Bryson (American writer) visited when writing his book 'A small Island. He was astonished to see how neglected this beautiful place was. He described the view across Morecambe Bay to the Cumbrian Mountains in the Lake District as the most beautiful in the UK.He then spent a lot of time there ,going across to walk in the Lakes.Could not understand why people weren't flocking there to invest and to live. Umm maybe because the powers that be refused to join Morecambe to the motorway system.wonder why that was?.

Blackpool doesn't have much in the way of American influence,which is odd given that it was built as a copy of Coney Island.Still got traditional fish,n,chips and Blackpool rock.Problem seems to be the town is owned by one family (The pleasure beach ) and the rest ? well could be crown estates ?. The lord Lieutenant of Lancashire made an appearance on Strictly from the Ballroom last night .. The Queens man in her county. (she is the Duke of Lancaster)

Do you raise a glass to the ' Duke ' at Christmas FL? as only Lancastrians can.


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