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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Cape Blue Nov 18th 2017 6:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12384774)
We all know what you are against.

You're always very keen to tell other people what it is they think and then throw out hate-filled terms like "bigot", "kipper" etc with zero justification.

Cape Blue Nov 18th 2017 6:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12384771)
I don't usually lower myself in that way - it was a reaction to your continual, childish and totally unjustified use of remoaner and remainiac.

Take yourself off to Bar Perez for a calming drink.

The vast majority of remain voters, myself included, are not remainiacs, but like the extreme brexiters before them, there are a fringe of those whose hate blinds them to reasonableness.

Cape Blue Nov 18th 2017 6:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12384782)
So does referring to people discussing Brexit as remainiacs and a strange breed.


I don't know why you keep snarling at UKIP - you sound just like a Kipper at times. Economics, social welfare, immigration - everything you say seems to fit in nicely.

I'm sure there are some reasonable UKIP supporters, but many appear not to be and they are clearly not a party of government.

I don't know what their policies are on social welfare and economics (I'm not even sure what it is on immigration to tell the truth).

Just look at you all - one big team of ad-hominem and abuse, no attempt to look at the potential positives of brexit, just attack the person - no different than the extreme fringe brexiters before the referendum. Must be embarrassing to have turned into the mirror image of them really.

EMR Nov 18th 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384931)
I'm sure there are some reasonable UKIP supporters, but many appear not to be and they are clearly not a party of government.

I don't know what their policies are on social welfare and economics (I'm not even sure what it is on immigration to tell the truth).

Just look at you all - one big team of ad-hominem and abuse, no attempt to look at the potential positives of brexit, just attack the person - no different than the extreme fringe brexiters before the referendum. Must be embarrassing to have turned into the mirror image of them really.

Over to you.
What are the positives of brexit that do not relate to your views on immigration.
You voted to remain, so what has changed.

EMR Nov 18th 2017 6:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384927)
You're always very keen to tell other people what it is they think and then throw out hate-filled terms like "bigot", "kipper" etc with zero justification.

Not hate filled, just accurate descriptions.
I think you should review your views about immigrants and the socially disadvantaged and then look at the definition of a bigot.

Red Eric Nov 18th 2017 6:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384931)
I don't know what their policies are on social welfare and economics (I'm not even sure what it is on immigration to tell the truth).

I was going by your sounding indistinguishable from those who openly support UKIP on here rather than their official policy, if indeed they have one.


Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384931)
Just look at you all - one big team of ad-hominem and abuse, no attempt to look at the potential positives of brexit, just attack the person - no different than the extreme fringe brexiters before the referendum. Must be embarrassing to have turned into the mirror image of them really.

If you just turn up once in a while to say remainiac etc a few dozen times (another Kipper trait, by the way), it's hardly surprising you get a bit of stick back. It's not original and any novelty there ever was must have worn off long ago even for you lot by now.

As for the positives of Brexit, we haven't got as far as the government speaking as one on the tying up of loose ends, let alone giving any confidence that anything positive could come out of the negotiations with the EU.

And the best prospect of hope for the future is apparently to open the UK up to a load of free trade deals in far more shark-infested waters than the EU. With Liam Fox, of Atlantic Bridge and Adam Werritty fame, gunning for a trade deal with the US, scourge, just a few short months ago of those who voted for Brexit (because, apparently, being a member of the EU over-exposes the UK to globalisation :blink:) These same people who carp about the supremacy of the ECJ, which is transparent and accountable, want to deliver us into the hands of offshore secret courts which will be supreme over British courts on matters relating to future trade disputes.

You'll forgive me if I'm not leaping for joy over the behaviour of May and her cabinet in trying to stifle debate and overturn the all the usual protocols but I still cling to a belief in a parliamentary democracy, which they have done their utmost to subvert. I'm genuinely surprised that none of the leavers on here ever seem to have any objections whatsoever.

Red Eric Nov 18th 2017 6:50 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12384914)
Did you not read the reports of agreement reached this week with the French minster??

You're obsessed with those cathedrals.

Garbatellamike Nov 18th 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12384950)
You're obsessed with those cathedrals.

Ah but a man who has seen many cathedrals has seen very little but a man who has seen one cathedral many times has seen something.

Cape Blue Nov 18th 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12384935)
Over to you.
What are the positives of brexit that do not relate to your views on immigration.
You voted to remain, so what has changed.

Nothing has changed - I'd vote remain again today.

Some might argue about ECJ/democracy, but I've never had an issue with that.

Others might argue about spending billions to build Spanish roads and give money to millionaire Polish farmers - whilst I support that argument, I can see that the economic benefits of membership probably outweigh that.

Some would mention "ever close union" and I think that has merit over the medium term - I'm not especially keen on a United States of Europe.

Immigration and the lack of control on numbers and quality is certainly a huge negative when it comes to accommodation costs, wage suppression and productivity - if one was a working-class renter one would have a perfectly valid argument for voting brexit.

Cape Blue Nov 18th 2017 7:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12384939)
Not hate filled, just accurate descriptions.
I think you should review your views about immigrants and the socially disadvantaged and then look at the definition of a bigot.

Wanting controlled immigration is not "bigotry" - these are the sort of reasons why remain lost, instead of making an argument for uncontrolled immigration they just shouted "racist".

Wanting to spend the social safety net more responsibly is also not "bigotry".

macliam Nov 18th 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12384893)
Some much for building bridges when we leave the EU.
The Sun," Irish PM should Shut his Gob."
Murdoch's sticky fingers again?.

It's actually worse than that, far worse, and insulting both to Ireland and the Taoiseach.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/494097...t-and-grow-up/
Of course, no evidence is given as to why Leo Varadkar is "naive", nor is the substance of what he said reported. It seems that just daring to speak his mind has him branded a "rookie" and "puerile".

Instead, the Sun opines that he should be sorting out the border issue(!) and, it seems, touching his forelock to the UK "whose billions stopped Ireland going bust as recently as 2010." Of course, they don't actually mention that this was a 10-year commercial load, on which Ireland has already paid €400m interest!

As you say, signs of "external influences" creating a bit of mischief.

DaveLovesDee Nov 18th 2017 7:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384958)
Others might argue about spending billions to build Spanish roads and give money to millionaire Polish farmers - whilst I support that argument, I can see that the economic benefits of membership probably outweigh that.

Do you have any evidence of this? Or is this just a Mail/Express headline?

It seems there are UK billionaires profiting from EU subsidies more than Polish farmers.


Some would mention "ever close union" and I think that has merit over the medium term - I'm not especially keen on a United States of Europe.
The United States of America has mostly worked out okay for the last 341 years. The individual states have great control of much of the laws, rules and regulations.


Immigration and the lack of control on numbers and quality is certainly a huge negative when it comes to accommodation costs, wage suppression and productivity - if one was a working-class renter one would have a perfectly valid argument for voting brexit.
I'm a working class renter, and and I voted Remain.

As for wage suppression, you mentioned in a previous post about employers paying the market rate. The industry I work in is licensed and regulated by the Home Office, licensing which was supposed to improve the pay rates by making us more professional and accountable. Yet I'm still being paid the same rate as we were getting 10 years ago. Yet my (local authority housing costs have risen 10%+ in those 10 years. The private rental market has probably increased by at least double that due mostly to greedy landlords and letting agents. Housing benefit doesn't even cover the full cost of some of these private rentals.

Employers will often pay the lowest rate possible within their industry when they provide a service to a 3rd-party client, because unless you're at the top end of the services market, clients usually want the cheapest service available. Supplying security staff to venues means there's always someone else willing to charge a few pence per contract hour less to win a contract.

Novocastrian Nov 18th 2017 7:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
[QUOTE=Cape Blue;12384962]Wanting controlled immigration is not "bigotry" - these are the sort of reasons why remain lost, instead of making an argument for uncontrolled immigration they just shouted "racist".

Wanting to spend the social safety net more responsibly is also not "bigotry".[/QUOTE]

Which wing of the party who caused Brexit want's to do that?

And in the context of the EU there is freedom of movemt between member states, which works both ( or all 28) ways.

This is a good thing for everyone except the xenophobes.

jimenato Nov 18th 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384928)

Take yourself off to Bar Perez for a calming drink.

The vast majority of remain voters, myself included, are not remainiacs, but like the extreme brexiters before them, there are a fringe of those whose hate blinds them to reasonableness.

http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/w...pson-photo.jpg

Red Eric Nov 18th 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12384962)
Wanting to spend the social safety net more responsibly is also not "bigotry".

"Social safety net" is a deliberate misnomer.

Welfare in developed economies goes beyond being a safety net or a last resort in the way those who use the term mean it. It's a mechanism for lifting people out of the danger of poverty (poverty being a big drag on an economy). Reducing welfare to the absolute minimum necessary to prevent people starving might yield a short term windfall but it would soon be outweighed by the detrimental effects on the economy as a whole.


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