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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

jimenato Sep 2nd 2016 9:04 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12041883)
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

er... I suppose that means you don't think that's a satisfactory outcome then.:(

Interestingly I know several Brexiteers who are hoping for that - or something very like it. And it's more-or-less the Norway solution which was being touted as the way forward by Brexit at one point.

So any ideas about what constitutes a good/bad outcome?

jimenato Sep 2nd 2016 9:10 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12041865)

...I want the UK to be free to make it's own laws & standards etc in a democratic manner & without interference from any 3rd party or having to concede any powers or decision making etc to the EU or anyone else.

What those new laws & standards etc might be will be a matter of democratic debate & are numerous but just some of the things I'd expect to be debated fairly soon after Brexit (not necessarily in this order) would be things like immigration/border controls, security, asylum, law & order (including issues such as the HRA as it currently stands) & of course international trade deals etc...

So if those things don't happen - e.g. we have to adhere to EU standards or accept freedom of movement in order to access the single market that would be a bad outcome?

And yet again - the HRA has nothing to do with the EU.:rolleyes:

mfesharne Sep 2nd 2016 9:19 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12041873)
D'you think he meant poles or Poles?:confused:

The difference between the two is good & bad grammar & a good example of that is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse & helping your uncle jack off a horse.

:lol:

mfesharne Sep 2nd 2016 9:35 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12041892)
So if those things don't happen - e.g. we have to adhere to EU standards or accept freedom of movement in order to access the single market that would be a bad outcome?

And yet again - the HRA has nothing to do with the EU.:rolleyes:

Independence will I'm sure mean pretty much what I said as in "I want the UK to be free to make it's own laws & standards etc in a democratic manner & without interference from any 3rd party or having to concede any powers or decision making etc to the EU or anyone else."

Which obviously means we'll be free to decide whether we want to "adhere to EU standards or accept freedom of movement" and my guess is the elected representatives will kick the latter into touch very quickly.

As for the former: What standards were you referring to? - You could mean anything from feet & inches to safety to asylum & immigration.

I'm not suggesting no movement just controlled movement so that economy & security are better protected....... but it'll be a case of democratic debate in both houses without interference from the EU about what can/cannot be done.

And that incidentally includes the Human Rights Act in it's present form. (IMO) it'll either be scrapped & replaced with a constitution or amended to a more sensible version. - The worst part of it's current form is the ridiculous right to family life & that needs to be ditched asap.

But how about my question which was: "Assuming the democratic decision made during the referendum is adhered to, what would you the other remainers like to see happen in the post Brexit UK?"

Bipat Sep 2nd 2016 9:44 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12041892)
So if those things don't happen - e.g. we have to adhere to EU standards or accept freedom of movement in order to access the single market that would be a bad outcome?

And yet again - the HRA has nothing to do with the EU.:rolleyes:

Read this 'blog' some time ago, written from the point of view of 'remainers' but note the possibility of special terms.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/impa...k-left-the-eu/

(You won't win about the HRA!)

DaveLovesDee Sep 2nd 2016 10:00 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12041897)
And that incidentally includes the Human Rights Act in it's present form. (IMO) it'll either be scrapped & replaced with a constitution or amended to a more sensible version. - The worst part of it's current form is the ridiculous right to family life & that needs to be ditched asap.

Do you realise that losing the right to a private and family life means not just for those we want to deport, but everyone in the UK losing that right.

mfesharne Sep 2nd 2016 10:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12041914)
Do you realise that losing the right to a private and family life means not just for those we want to deport, but everyone in the UK losing that right.

I'm not for a moment suggesting it be scrapped entirely & not replaced with anything at all.

My point is some of the aspects of 'right to family life' etc are often abused by immigrant criminals as a way of preventing them being deported at the end of their sentence......... and that needs to change.

If they've abused our hospitality and committed serious crimes such as rape and/or murder then (IMO) they should have no right to anything at all & should be deported at the end of their sentence........ and if their family in the UK wants a 'right to family life' they should be free to go as well.

To me, human rights (for want of a better term) should apply more to the victims & potential future victims than to the wrong 'uns.

Dick Dasterdly Sep 2nd 2016 10:25 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12041891)
er... I suppose that means you don't think that's a satisfactory outcome then.:(

Interestingly I know several Brexiteers who are hoping for that - or something very like it. And it's more-or-less the Norway solution which was being touted as the way forward by Brexit at one point.

So any ideas about what constitutes a good/bad outcome?

The best outcome would be a swift exit with no acceptance of any EU pre conditions and total freedom to run all of our own affairs to our own benefit in a democratic manner.

Once we are completely clear of the sad and sorry mess, there is little doubt that trade would continue as normal and taking into account the trading differential the U.K. would be in the driving seat with regard to any terms of business.

jimenato Sep 2nd 2016 10:33 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12041904)
Read this 'blog' some time ago, written from the point of view of 'remainers' but note the possibility of special terms.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/impa...k-left-the-eu/

(You won't win about the HRA!)

I confess that I haven't read the blog - is it relevant to what Brexiteers would consider to be a bad outcome?

I know about the HRA - it's fairly typical of the lack of knowledge and skewed thinking that led many Brexiteers vote the way they did. Anyway not much point in worrying about that now is there?:(

I'm more interested now in how things are going to pan out and whether or not the things that Brexiteers are expecting are actually going to happen like, for instance, something to do with the HRA, money for the NHS, control of immigration and the like.

The point is that, as no outcome was specified, they voted for ANY outcome and really, they are going to have to be satisfied with it - even if it's what I outlined above and Dick found so amusing.

And that's the crux - It's what they voted for.

jimenato Sep 2nd 2016 11:12 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Hard border in Ireland?

It appears so.


“I am absolutely mystified, not for the first time in this debate, about what is coming out of London,” he said. “We have been told by a number of Conservative Party spokespeople that Britain will leave the common customs area of the EU. If this is true, the customs union, which relates to sharing a common external tariff of the EU, will have to be maintained by all other EU countries with the UK following its withdrawal. Goods will have to be checked at borders.

“I would be very fearful that they may be heading towards a negotiation that will require a hard Border between north and south in Ireland. Dismissing this as a prospect at this stage is ridiculous.”

DaveLovesDee Sep 2nd 2016 11:35 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12041947)

The current open border between NI and RoI (no different than the open border between Schengen area countries) was officially made part of the Good Friday Agreement, and imposing a hard border contravenes that agreement.

However, every member of the EU must maintain a hard border with all adjoining no-EU/EEA member countries.

Fredbargate Sep 2nd 2016 11:54 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12041959)
The current open border between NI and RoI (no different than the open border between Schengen area countries) was officially made part of the Good Friday Agreement, and imposing a hard border contravenes that agreement.

However, every member of the EU must maintain a hard border with all adjoining no-EU/EEA member countries.

Spain maintains a hard border with Gibraltar which is in the EU :thumbdown:

mfesharne Sep 2nd 2016 12:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
From what I see on the news several EU countries either have put or are putting up border fences & passport control on their borders in an attempt to slow the flow of immigrants & my guess is that'll become increasingly common.

Dick Dasterdly Sep 2nd 2016 12:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12042030)
From what I see on the news several EU countries either have put or are putting up border fences & passport control on their borders in an attempt to slow the flow of immigrants & my guess is that'll become increasingly common.

Hungary planning ‘massive’ new border fence to keep out refugees as PM vows to ‘hold them back by force’ | The Independent

Meanwhile in Norway...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7208806.html

Norway to build border fence with Russia to keep out refugees

mfesharne Sep 2nd 2016 12:58 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Regarding the HRA.

I've pointed this out before but will do so again.

It rather is & isn't EU legislation because it's linked to the EU & the Convention & that's why TM spent a number of years fighting it so she could deport undesirables such as Abu Hamza etc & the reason she couldn't was because of that act & the way it's linked to Europe.

Those same links incidentally also ensured the act couldn't be amended or scrapped.

Once out of the EU I'd think it'll be very high up on the list of debates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Act_1998

UK must leave European convention on human rights, says Theresa May | Politics | The Guardian

Theresa May told she can't deport Abu Hamza's daughter-in-law, claims Tory MP - Mirror Online

Abu Hamza deportation: Human rights court accused of double-standards for failing to tackle 'appalling' European prisons - Telegraph

IMO the entire human rights system in it's current form is an absolute super mega bugly stuff up of immense proportions & the whole lot needs to be scrapped entirely & replaced with something that protects the innocent citizens & fast tracks getting rid of the undesirables.


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