British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Red Eric Nov 16th 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383518)
1) +2) I don't know what will happen post brexit, but the UK will not be a member of the EU!!
What have you got against equality, would you prefer only European migrants coming to the UK including those from the EU countries??

I haven't got anything against equality.

I'm asking you, in the face of your strenuous arguments for a system that is completely oblivious to nationalities, what you will think about your vote to leave the EU if that particular matter isn't dealt with in the way you desire (as seems highly likely to me, given what has emerged so far, based on the country's needs. And we haven't even got as far as settling the status of those who are already in the UK yet).


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383518)
When number controls are necessary obviously control cannot happen when one small unit of countries has free movement.

The numbers are controlled by the need of those entering the UK for work purposes to find suitable work. Otherwise they go home. In this manner the needs of the country are met and the numbers of EU migrants controlled. It's how a free market operates. Supply and demand.


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383518)
3)The major Treaties made major changes--

Agred to and signed for by all the EU member states, every one of which has a veto on any treaty changes.



Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383518)
4)There is a difference as I have said in the ECJ being involved in certain particular disputes and the EU law being Supreme to UK (national) law.

The ECJ can only become involved in certain particular disputes as things stand at the moment.

SultanOfSwing Nov 16th 2017 6:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12383692)
And I think very, very close to the truth.

Yes, quite startlingly close.

iano Nov 16th 2017 6:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12383692)
And I think very, very close to the truth.

Was thinking the same, the UK has for years been an advocate for EU enlargement, even Turkey (!), and for long after that programme was first aired.

Annetje Nov 16th 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383691)
It has been illustrated on this thread many times that those of Indian and Polish birth are of equal numbers.

Those that came in the time of free movement are now in aging or dead.

So are quite a lot of Brexiteers as well I've been told :p

They had children yes but they are British born and not migrants.

Not incredibly fertile-- three children will obviously increase the percentage number of ethnic origin.

You are mixing ethnicity and migrant numbers.

Yes the largest group non-EU of migrants coming are from that country (they do have links you know!!), Chinese are the largest group of students.

You well know that if there is not free movement then there are restrictions just as for any non-EU migrant.

Ermmm, how does one say that ,,,,, Oh yes ... No sh*t Sherlock ...

EMR Nov 16th 2017 6:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383691)
It has been illustrated on this thread many times that those of Indian and Polish birth are of equal numbers.

Those that came in the time of free movement are now in aging or dead. They had children yes but they are British born and not migrants.

Not incredibly fertile-- three children will obviously increase the percentage number of ethnic origin.

You are mixing ethnicity and migrant numbers.

Yes the largest group non-EU of migrants coming are from that country (they do have links you know!!), Chinese are the largest group of students.

You well know that if there is not free movement then there are restrictions just as for any non-EU migrant.

400,000 increase is migration not ethnicity.
Figures like those are why immigration was such an important factor in the brexit campaign.

amideislas Nov 16th 2017 6:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12383695)
I haven't got anything against equality.

I'm asking you, in the face of your strenuous arguments for a system that is completely oblivious to nationalities, what you will think about your vote to leave the EU if that particular matter isn't dealt with in the way you desire (as seems highly likely to me, given what has emerged so far, based on the country's needs. And we haven't even got as far as settling the status of those who are already in the UK yet).


The numbers are controlled by the need of those entering the UK for work purposes to find suitable work. Otherwise they go home. In this manner the needs of the country are met and the numbers of EU migrants controlled. It's how a free market operates. Supply and demand.


Agred to and signed for by all the EU member states, every one of which has a veto on any treaty changes.



The ECJ can only become involved in certain particular disputes as things stand at the moment.

Eric, you're quite eloquent and you explain things well, and rationally. But frankly, It's not clear it's very effective.

It doesn't matter whether each phobia is relevant or even has anything to do with the EU. The EU is bad. The ECJ is bad, and it all makes the lives of ordinary Brits bad (ironically, this only applies to Brits). And until Britain leaves the EU, the government's hands are completely tied and there's nothing anyone can do to effect this nonexistent crisis (despite all evidence to the contrary).

I think maybe you may be engaged in something similar to teaching a cat to tie its shoes.

Lion in Winter Nov 16th 2017 7:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383691)
It has been illustrated on this thread many times that those of Indian and Polish birth are of equal numbers.

Those that came in the time of free movement are now in aging or dead. They had children yes but they are British born and not migrants.

Not incredibly fertile-- three children will obviously increase the percentage number of ethnic origin.

You are mixing ethnicity and migrant numbers.

Yes the largest group non-EU of migrants coming are from that country (they do have links you know!!), Chinese are the largest group of students.

You well know that if there is not free movement then there are restrictions just as for any non-EU migrant.

Dear god why on earth does anyone care :blink::confused::blink:

Poles, Chinese, Indians - wtf difference does it make to anyone who comes to work in which country.

Why don't we focus on real issues like climate change, hunger, and war? :banghead:

Annetje Nov 16th 2017 7:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12383728)
Dear god why on earth does anyone care :blink::confused::blink:

Poles, Chinese, Indians - wtf difference does it make to anyone who comes to work in which country.

Why don't we focus on real issues like climate change, hunger, and war? :banghead:

Bipat always goes on and on and on about immigrants, goodness knows why since she herself lives in 2 countries .. :unsure:

(And now we will get another lecture about free movement and not free movement) Pffff :sarcasm:

Lion in Winter Nov 16th 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12383733)
Bipat always goes on and on and on about immigrants, goodness knows why since she herself lives in 2 countries .. :unsure:

(And now we will get another lecture about free movement and not free movement) Pffff :sarcasm:

It isn't just Bipat - the entire discussion and most of the brexit campaign has been dominated by the questions of nationality, "race", religion, ethnicity, etc etc etc.

Talk about Nero fiddling.

Annetje Nov 16th 2017 7:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12383735)
It isn't just Bipat - the entire discussion and most of the brexit campaign has been dominated by the questions of nationality, "race", religion, ethnicity, etc etc etc.

Talk about Nero fiddling.

And we're all foreigners anyway ;)

Bipat Nov 16th 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12383710)
400,000 increase is migration not ethnicity.
Figures like those are why immigration was such an important factor in the brexit campaign.

EMR you used the words of ethnic origin for your figures. Many of "ethnic" origin were born in the UK they are therefore British they are not migrants.

amideislas Nov 16th 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
What? Who ever mentioned anything about nationality? I thought it was all about immigration. Obviously, that has nothing to do with nationality. Besides, that's not why people voted for brexit. It was other, more ambiguous stuff. Like, say, immigration.

Bipat Nov 16th 2017 7:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12383733)
Bipat always goes on and on and on about immigrants, goodness knows why since she herself lives in 2 countries .. :unsure:

(And now we will get another lecture about free movement and not free movement) Pffff :sarcasm:

I was answering a post which suggested there were too many of a certain ethnicity in the UK.

I tend to just answer other posts!

Living in two countries I do realise that there is more to the world than just the 27 European countries of the EU, also that the migrants from non EU countries are just as valuable to the UK as EU migrants.

EMR Nov 16th 2017 7:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12383741)
EMR you used the words of ethnic origin for your figures. Many of "ethnic" origin were born in the UK they are therefore British they are not migrants.

Are all of the 400,000 increase born in the UK.
Obviously the vast majority are migrants which the anti migrant faction in Brexit latched on to .
Not my figures or description but those used by the UK population census.

amideislas Nov 16th 2017 7:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
And certainly more to the world than Britain. But Britain is about to discover that little reality.


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