British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Nov 13th 2017 4:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381145)
Another win for the remainiacs.

So you are now opposed to our Parliamentary system.
Is there anything about the 21st century UK that you are happy with.

Cape Blue Nov 13th 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12381147)
Simple question,
What is wrong with the changing multi cultural, multi ethnic, religious and economic mix of London, the UK and why ?
Look up you numerous past posts if you need any help.

Strawman argument - I have not complained about the cultural, ethnic, religious mix of London and the UK. Look up my previous posts and show me specifically where I have.

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 4:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381150)
So you are saying that because I pay for all my own services and then pay for several other people's services I am being given a subsidy?


I am saying that you directly benefit from things that you have not directly paid for. You may consider that you have paid for "your piece" of a national education system, for example. But common goods are things into which we collectively pay - and which our elected government helps to accomplish - to accomplish an end that individuals alone cannot. Individualism is not an adequate concept for explaining how a society functions well (god knows I know that, living where I do). If the population were not as a whole educated, there would be ramifications far beyond "services" and they would impact you, and all of us, negatively.

Bipat Nov 13th 2017 4:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381150)
So you are saying that because I pay for all my own services and then pay for several other people's services I am being given a subsidy?

What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 4:51 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12381162)
What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.

And everybody benefits from that - not just your relative and your family. The economy benefits because you and your family are not bankrupted and can continue to participate in the economy. If your family member is still of working age, then the company s/he works for will continue to benefit from their acquired expertise rather than losing the employee to illness and having to start again. The list goes on.

Cape Blue Nov 13th 2017 4:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12381155)
I am saying that you directly benefit from things that you have not directly paid for. You may consider that you have paid for "your piece" of a national education system, for example. But common goods are things into which we collectively pay - and which our elected government helps to accomplish - to accomplish an end that individuals alone cannot. Individualism is not an adequate concept for explaining how a society functions well (god knows I know that, living where I do). If the population were not as a whole educated, there would be ramifications far beyond "services" and they would impact you, and all of us, negatively.

And you are saying that subsidising someones housing in one of the most expensive locations in the world is a common good? That a warehouse worker in a rough part of Wolverhampton should pay more tax for the "common good" of keeping a single mum ensconced in a flat in Chelsea rather than somewhere cheaper?

Cape Blue Nov 13th 2017 4:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12381162)
What you pay for the NHS for example and other benefits is a form of insurance which YOU might one day need.
We could have said the same as you until 3 months ago. The amount of top class treatment a family member is getting and will continue to get for some time would have taken everything we all possessed without the NHS, and we go down on our knees in thanks for it.

Yes, I pay for myself and I might need to use it, I also pay for others use of it, but I fail to see how it is subsidy for me when I pay for it.

Cape Blue Nov 13th 2017 5:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12381152)
So you are now opposed to our Parliamentary system.
Is there anything about the 21st century UK that you are happy with.

Remainiacs haven't forced this for parliamentary reasons, they have done it to try and stop brexit, in the face of the will of the British people.

amideislas Nov 13th 2017 5:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
There's actually little difference in how the NHS is paid for than say, in Germany. The difference seems to be that in Britain, it's part of taxation, so it's less differentiated, while in much of "the rest of the world", you're obliged to buy health insurance. Often, that "insurance" is state-subsidised, such as AOK in Germany. In any case, you still pay for it. It isn't "free" (unless of course, you're stint). And healthcare isn't "free" anywhere. Not even in Britain. The system simply gives the public the impression that it is.

Now, as Britain's economics inevitably downsize, it begs the question of whether the NHS is sustainable under the current system. It needs more money, but there's less to go around, so how does that square with reality?

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 5:18 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381169)
And you are saying that subsidising someones housing in one of the most expensive locations in the world is a common good? That a warehouse worker in a rough part of Wolverhampton should pay more tax for the "common good" of keeping a single mum ensconced in a flat in Chelsea rather than somewhere cheaper?

No.

I am quite capable of recognizing straw men when I see them you know.

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 5:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381177)
Remainiacs haven't forced this for parliamentary reasons, they have done it to try and stop brexit, in the face of the will of the British people.

Oh for goodness sake, stop the Daily Mail hysteria. The Parliamentary system is how the will of the people is expressed, not by a cabal of government officials.

Parliament won't be "stopping" us from leaving. If anything, the exit is likely to be "harder" due to Parliament not passing whatever idiocy May and Davis come up with.

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381171)
Yes, I pay for myself and I might need to use it, I also pay for others use of it, but I fail to see how it is subsidy for me when I pay for it.

Then you don't understand the term "common good". You keep thinking in terms of subsidies because you are worried someone might be getting something for nothing.

Have a read:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/common-good

Annetje Nov 13th 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12381136)
Anyway, Parliament will now get a look-in.

Parliament to get binding vote on final Brexit deal - BBC News

I understand this will only apply if there is ''a deal''.
If no deal, the UK will jump without Parliament approval ...

Lion in Winter Nov 13th 2017 5:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12381191)
I understand this will only apply if there is ''a deal''.
If no deal, the UK will jump without Parliament approval ...

Yes, Parliament can't approve something that doesn't exist.

Article 50 has been declared and approved, so we will be leaving - that has already been approved. The terms of the leaving have not, because the government has been unable to produce any.

EMR Nov 13th 2017 5:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12381153)
Strawman argument - I have not complained about the cultural, ethnic, religious mix of London and the UK. Look up my previous posts and show me specifically where I have.

So you are happy with the population mix in zone 2.
There are no fecund immigrants.
Was it your twin bother who posted those comments.


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