Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Nov 10th 2017, 6:17 pm
  #23626  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
But this has nothing to do with Brexit.
Really, wasn,t brexit and in particular your reasons for it because of the opportunities currently denied to the unskilled and those lacking qualifications because of EU membership that will be available in a post brexit UK.
How will you explain to them that the reality will be very different .
Who will you blame then ?
EMR is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 6:22 pm
  #23627  
Resident Cynic
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 7,853
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
"oh wise one" - what is it about remainiacs where they feel they need to spout their petulance, hate and ad-hominem the whole time?

I am talking about the current flows of mass migration that will still be living here when automation makes them unemployed - if we continued in the EU we will be admitting millions more working-age migrants who we will then need to pay benefits for as automation takes their jobs.

I get my data from the ONS. You should try it.
It is not the fault of the EU that the British Government chose not to follow the registration route used by other EU states, whereby, at the end of your 90-day visa period, you have to apply for residence - and prove that you are not a burden on the state. Here this was belatedly and half-heartedly implemented by not allowing people to claim benefits for the first 3 months after arrival - a sticking plaster that just delayed the problem.

When discussing the minority of migrants who are self-sufficient, it is not the fault of the EU that the British benefits system is open to exploitation, that there is no real deterrent for abusers and no real proof of identity (like ID cards) or eligibility is required. All these issues apply to UK natives too - so the migrants have just exposed an existing problem.

Finally, the situation was also not helped by the many "do-gooders" who actively encourage migrants, working or not, to apply for benefits and suggest ways to "get around" potential obstacles by exploiting loopholes in the law - the same type of loophole that allows the rich to avoid paying tax.

But, far better to blame the EU and pull up the drawbridge than to solve the underlying problem, eh?
macliam is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:04 pm
  #23628  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You have not explained why EU migrants would want to come to or be needed in a UK with declining employment opportunities for the unskilled as automation and robotics gathers pace .
A trend that will also affect the unskilled , lacking qualifications UK Labour pool.

A Brexiter who quotes ONS figures, you are indeed a rare bird.
How do you feel about the latest figures that show a widening trade gap with exports to non EU countries declining as a % of exports.
Proof of the reliance the UK economy has on the EU.
The non EU world that is the " golden " opportunity for the UK economy according to Brexit.
I don't have to explain that, it is not the point I am making. I am saying why would we want to import millions more now ahead of the changes in automation, only to have to look after them on benefits after.

I feel bad about it, but each individual data set means nothing in isolation, just as the record employment levels do. It will be 3-4 years before anything sensible can be said about the financial impacts of brexit, positive and negative.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:06 pm
  #23629  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
It is not the fault of the EU that the British Government chose not to follow the registration route used by other EU states, whereby, at the end of your 90-day visa period, you have to apply for residence - and prove that you are not a burden on the state. Here this was belatedly and half-heartedly implemented by not allowing people to claim benefits for the first 3 months after arrival - a sticking plaster that just delayed the problem.

When discussing the minority of migrants who are self-sufficient, it is not the fault of the EU that the British benefits system is open to exploitation, that there is no real deterrent for abusers and no real proof of identity (like ID cards) or eligibility is required. All these issues apply to UK natives too - so the migrants have just exposed an existing problem.

Finally, the situation was also not helped by the many "do-gooders" who actively encourage migrants, working or not, to apply for benefits and suggest ways to "get around" potential obstacles by exploiting loopholes in the law - the same type of loophole that allows the rich to avoid paying tax.

But, far better to blame the EU and pull up the drawbridge than to solve the underlying problem, eh?
I agree, the Blair government opened the gates and the subsequent Tory ones did nothing to close them, both EU and non-EU.

No UK party (aside from UKIP, who were clearly not a party of government) was sensibly proposing to restrict high net immigration, so the public did it for them via the referendum.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:23 pm
  #23630  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I don't have to explain that, it is not the point I am making. I am saying why would we want to import millions more now ahead of the changes in automation, only to have to look after them on benefits after.

I feel bad about it, but each individual data set means nothing in isolation, just as the record employment levels do. It will be 3-4 years before anything sensible can be said about the financial impacts of brexit, positive and negative.
EU migrants come here because of the health of the UK economy and the job opportunities that provides.
We do not import anyone, we are talking about people about who you have given an opinion many times.
Are you suggesting that a recession with higher unemployment would be better for the UK .
EMR is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:37 pm
  #23631  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,865
la mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond reputela mancha has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Really, wasn,t brexit and in particular your reasons for it because of the opportunities currently denied to the unskilled and those lacking qualifications because of EU membership that will be available in a post brexit UK.
How will you explain to them that the reality will be very different .
Who will you blame then ?
No.
la mancha is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:40 pm
  #23632  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,032
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I agree, the Blair government opened the gates and the subsequent Tory ones did nothing to close them, both EU and non-EU.
It's the nature of getting agreements between multiple parties done that the Treaty of Amsterdam signed by Blair in October 1997 was actually little of Blair's doing. Most of the UK's involvement in the drafting of the Treaty of Asterdam was by the previous Tory government under Major.

The treaty was the result of long negotiations which began in Messina, Sicily, on 2 June 1995, nearly forty years after the signing of the Treaty of Rome, and reached completion in Amsterdam on 18 June 1997. Following the formal signing of the Treaty on 2 October 1997, the Member States engaged in an equally long and complex ratification process. The European Parliament endorsed the treaty on 19 November 1997, and after two referendums and 13 decisions by parliaments, the Member States finally concluded the procedure.
Major had also been PM when the UK was involved in negotiating the Maastricht Treaty in 1991. Yet apparently, it's all Blair's fault......

No UK party (aside from UKIP, who were clearly not a party of government) was sensibly proposing to restrict high net immigration, so the public did it for them via the referendum.
Yet most of these immigrants were employed in the UK.

Not sure if you can watch this where you are, but this seems to be an interesting show. British Workers Wanted
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:44 pm
  #23633  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
No.
Denying your numerous posts the subject then?
A true Brexiter.
EMR is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 7:58 pm
  #23634  
Reasonable Bitch
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 18,139
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Apparently the day after brexit the shutters come down. Alternatively the EU countries want to continue selling to their largest external market and we keep buying EU food, likely under a FTA.
I don't think they have much to worry about. The UK is all but entirely dependent on EU imports, whatever the cost.

Sure, you can get stuff from say, Brazil, Argentina, the US... You know, over there, way across the two-week journey across the Atlantic? I presume tesco and Morrison's have already set up their JIT supply chains from those places?
amideislas is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 8:57 pm
  #23635  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,415
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I don't think they have much to worry about. The UK is all but entirely dependent on EU imports, whatever the cost.

Sure, you can get stuff from say, Brazil, Argentina, the US... You know, over there, way across the two-week journey across the Atlantic? I presume tesco and Morrison's have already set up their JIT supply chains from those places?
In the UK at the moment--just been to Asda--fruit from Kent, South Africa, West Indies, Peru. When in India we get apples from UK in local supermarket!
The supply chains seem to be in place!
Only the first ever consignment will take two weeks before being on the shelves, the rest if sent daily will arrive daily.
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 9:03 pm
  #23636  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
In the UK at the moment--just been to Asda--fruit from Kent, South Africa, West Indies, Peru. When in India we get apples from UK in local supermarket!
The supply chains seem to be in place!
Only the first ever consignment will take two weeks before being on the shelves, the rest if sent daily will arrive daily.
We have been buying products that cannot be economically grown or have short seasons in the UK for years.
Nothing to do with Brexit.
Unlike the higher prices we are now paying for imported foods.

Last edited by EMR; Nov 10th 2017 at 9:07 pm.
EMR is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 9:11 pm
  #23637  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,415
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
We have been buying products that cannot be economically growing or have short seasons in the UK for years.
Nothing to do with Brexit.
Unlike the higher prices we are now paying for imported foods.
I think you have answered the wrong post, it was 'Ami'--who stated "The UK is all but entirely dependent on EU imports" etc.
Bipat is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 9:26 pm
  #23638  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I think you have answered the wrong post, it was 'Ami'--who stated "The UK is all but entirely dependent on EU imports" etc.
No I answered your post.
You should check out where the majority of our pork products come from.
How much beef from Ireland.
You will find a post of mine a couple of weeks ago with details the very high % of imported foodstuffs that the UK relies on.
Am is not far off the mark.
EMR is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 9:32 pm
  #23639  
Resident Cynic
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 7,853
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I agree, the Blair government opened the gates and the subsequent Tory ones did nothing to close them, both EU and non-EU.

No UK party (aside from UKIP, who were clearly not a party of government) was sensibly proposing to restrict high net immigration, so the public did it for them via the referendum.
Nope, wrong. This has nothing to do with migration, this is to do with the British system being too lax and nobody wanting to do anything about it.

The greatest abusers of the British welfare system are homegrown generations who believe that they have a right to be supported - and before you think you have an ally, I say this from a socialist perspective, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

UKIP were just a bunch of chancers, now imploding.
macliam is offline  
Old Nov 10th 2017, 9:41 pm
  #23640  
Born again atheist
 
Novocastrian's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,252
Novocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I agree, the Blair government opened the gates and the subsequent Tory ones did nothing to close them, both EU and non-EU.

No UK party (aside from UKIP, who were clearly not a party of government) was sensibly proposing to restrict high net immigration, so the public did it for them via the referendum.
Was the reason for that because it was (and is) clearly in the UK's interest to maintain immigration?
Novocastrian is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.