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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Oct 16th 2017 3:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12362205)
Enlighten me.

What is the difference between a free trade agreement, which apparently costs nothing, and access to the single market via membership of the EU which is very expensive?

Because there is far more to membership of the EU than a fta.
Where have you been for the years of the brexit debate.

jimenato Oct 16th 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12362205)
Enlighten me.

What is the difference between a free trade agreement, which apparently costs nothing, and access to the single market via membership of the EU which is very expensive?

Prof Michael Dougan explains.

Doubtless when you have watched this and understand the issue you will change your position.:flypig:


macliam Oct 16th 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12362174)
I disagree with your assertions there - most strongly

Am I surprised?


...... No.

Best not to ask if I care..........

Golden Years Oct 16th 2017 4:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12362218)
Because there is far more to membership of the EU than a fta.
Where have you been for the years of the brexit debate.

I know exactly what is involved in membership of the EU.
All we wanted in the first place was a free trade agreement.
We were told repeatedly that we had to be a member to have access to the single market.
That came at a huge cost, both financially and structurally.
Now, it seems, like 50+ other countries have done, we could arrange a free trade agreement which gives us access to the single market at no annual cost.
Sounds good.

EMR Oct 16th 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12362234)
I know exactly what is involved in membership of the EU.
All we wanted in the first place was a free trade agreement.
We were told repeatedly that we had to be a member to have access to the single market.
That came at a huge cost, both financially and structurally.
Now, it seems, like 50+ other countries have done, we could arrange a free trade agreement which gives us access to the single market at no annual cost.
Sounds good.


You must yearn for the sixties, you are well named.
I bet you believe that We would still have a UK owned car industry.
The coal mines ,steel plants, shipyards would still be open.
Our shops would not be full of foreign produce.
As for immigrants , well enough said.
What in your world is not down to our membership of the EU.

Golden Years Oct 16th 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12362241)
You must yearn for the sixties, you are well named.
I bet you believe that We would still have a UK owned car industry.
The coal mines ,steel plants, shipyards would still be open.
Our shops would not be full of foreign produce.
As for immigrants , well enough said.
What in your world is not down to our membership of the EU.

You lose your bet, again and again.
I believe we should allow every nation to trade with us freely, without tariffs, regardless of whether they reciprocate.

Annetje Oct 16th 2017 4:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12362234)
I know exactly what is involved in membership of the EU.
All we wanted in the first place was a free trade agreement.
We were told repeatedly that we had to be a member to have access to the single market.
That came at a huge cost, both financially and structurally.
Now, it seems, like 50+ other countries have done, we could arrange a free trade agreement which gives us access to the single market at no annual cost.
Sounds good.

If one has the time to negotiate a FTA .. they don't normally fly off the shelves.
Why do I think the UK doesn't has the time :(

EMR Oct 16th 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12362248)
You lose your bet, again and again.
I believe we should allow every nation to trade with us freely, without tariffs, regardless of whether they reciprocate.

That was how the Victorians thought.

It was a very different world then, the UK was top of the Premier league now we are in the relegation zone.
Even Thatcher did not believe as you do.
Have you ever heard of the WTO, the alternative to the EU which also controls trade , obviously not.

Garbatellamike Oct 16th 2017 4:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12362228)
Am I surprised?


...... No.

Best not to ask if I care..........

do you care?

oh blast:sneaky:

Annetje Oct 16th 2017 5:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Brains behind Brexit words (first time I hear someone admitting this) :

In an essay for the Spectator, Mr Cummings – a man David Cameron once described as a "career psychopath" – said Brexiteers won the referendum by talking about immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS.
"Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way," he wrote.


Brexit is turning into a disaster, says Vote Leave chief | The Independent


He also describes DD very well :lol:

Cape Blue Oct 16th 2017 6:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Watchpost (Post 12362071)
A "no deal" scenario will have negative outcomes for the EU. The biggest are probably the loss of its second-largest financial contributor (and the resulting likely reduction in transfers to the Eastern European members, in particular, and in turn deterioration in the EU's standing among their populations), and the disruption to industrial supply chains. WTO tariffs of a few percent on BMWs aren't really the issue, particularly considering the drop in sterling since the referendum.

There's no question that a hard Brexit will be painful for the EU, although there are also positives, such as the return of European institutions and jobs "to the fold" and freedom from its most troublesome member, to name just two.

The result for the UK, however, won't be painful, or even disastrous, but absolutely cataclysmic. The UK will no doubt muddle through somehow and portray a disaster as a victory, as with Dunkirk, and for the Eton-Oxford set it will all work out – things always work out for the Eton-Oxford set. For the man in the street, or worse, in an NHS hospital bed, I think it will be Armageddon. (I hope I'm wrong.)

I would tend to agree with those who say that the EU isn't (or is no longer) negotiating, but the UK has throughout the process shown no desire whatsoever to negotiate in good faith. Its negotiating position is based upon an entirely utopian view of the situation as presented by the Mail and the Express, and having kowtowed to these rags for so long, no one in the government now dares to state the truth, which is that the EU holds almost all the cards.

I find the whole "whose court is the ball in" analogy amusing, because it isn't that the two sides can't agree where the ball is: they're not even playing the same game. The EU – partly because its room for negotiation is constrained by the need for 27 parties to agree on a position, partly because European politics is based upon consensus-building rather than confrontation and it is therefore frustrated by the absence of a consensus-oriented approach from the UK – has simply set out its final offer, take it or leave it. It's playing hardball. The UK thinks it's playing the Eton Wall Game, which it is best at and which it won in a slightly modified form at Waterloo, Crécy and Agincourt.

It doesn't bode well for the UK.

You don't mention why and how this "absolutely cataclysmic Armageddon" occurs - could you enlighten us?

morpeth Oct 16th 2017 6:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12362259)
That was how the Victorians thought.

It was a very different world then, the UK was top of the Premier league now we are in the relegation zone.
Even Thatcher did not believe as you do.
Have you ever heard of the WTO, the alternative to the EU which also controls trade , obviously not.

The UK still has one of the largest economies in the world, while I assume all do not like the decline in many areas and the relative decline in Britain's economic standing, the country still maintains a lot of economic strength.

Shard Oct 16th 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12362348)
The UK still has one of the largest economies in the world, while I assume all do not like the decline in many areas and the relative decline in Britain's economic standing, the country still maintains a lot of economic strength.

True, but there's still no reason to inflict significant damage to the economy and marginalise ourselves.

A couple of days ago I saw an EU somebody chastising the US on something. I couldn't help think how much economic/poltical power we in the EU have as a bloc compared to a single nation griping about the US (or China or wherever). This is a different world from 1940's when Britain and France were colonial powers and big players on the international stage. This is what the dewy eyed majors at Brexit Towers don't quite understand.

DaveLovesDee Oct 16th 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12362172)
My point is both sides are currently driving us towards a a hard BREXIT and no one is being collaborative.

The EU27 are collaborating with each other...


Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12362327)
You don't mention why and how this "absolutely cataclysmic Armageddon" occurs - could you enlighten us?

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/aa/f6/5...daee8d9531.jpg

Change the word 'scientist' with expert. :p

It’s time to face up to the prospect of Brexit Armageddon

EMR Oct 16th 2017 6:37 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12362348)
The UK still has one of the largest economies in the world, while I assume all do not like the decline in many areas and the relative decline in Britain's economic standing, the country still maintains a lot of economic strength.

But not the position that some brexiters think.
Our economy is grossly imbalanced and We are one of the least productive economies.
Nothing in Brexit suggests any change in that scenario.


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