British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Golden Years Oct 12th 2017 10:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359204)
The single biggest driver of Brexit without doubt. Labour refused to effect the available 7 year EU transition controls (of migrant numbers) when Eastern Europeans joined the EU. Unlike all the other major Western European nations.

Labour had 'forecast' around 16,000 or so bothering to come each year, and look what happened.

Blair/Brown didn't see them as immigrants, they saw them as grateful Labour voters.

Golden Years Oct 12th 2017 10:09 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12358898)
Was a vote to leave the EU a vote to end freedom of movement from EU members.
Eire is an EU member.
Not thought that one out did you.

Actually, yes.
It was always understood that the CTA would trump the restriction on freedom of movement for EU members other than the Irish.
It seems to have come as a bit of a surprise to you, though, eh?

Shard Oct 12th 2017 10:17 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12359231)
Not according to my experience (and that of members of groups I'm in) of dealing with the Home Office regarding applications under EU law.

What kind of barriers have you encountered with the Home Office?

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 10:20 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359269)
What kind of barriers have you encountered with the Home Office?

bureaucracy and ineptitude probably but I'm guessing

iano Oct 12th 2017 10:52 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12359259)
Blair/Brown didn't see them as immigrants, they saw them as grateful Labour voters.

Unlikely, EU citizens resident in the UK are unable to vote.

This country has been seriously let down by its politicians, both Tory and Tory lite, for some years now.

The huge political cost of Blair’s decision to allow Eastern European migrants unfettered access to Britain

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 11:12 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359289)
This country has been seriously let down by its politicians, both Tory and Tory lite, for some years now.

Yep and nothing will change whoever is next either

DaveLovesDee Oct 12th 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359269)
What kind of barriers have you encountered with the Home Office?

Caseworkers unable (or unwilling) to apply EU law correctly, or even according to the Home Office's own caseworker guidance. And when the guidance was first issued, parts of it were wrongly interpreting EU law.

I understand that caseworkers have to follow what their employer tells them to, but given the number of refusals overturned by immigration tribunal jugdes, either the Home Office needs to be made more accountable, or the individual caseworker needs to start having to justify their decision at the tribunal appeal. Currently, the Home Office are represented by Presenting Officers, who often don't see the case file until the day before the tribunal date.


Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12359273)
bureaucracy and ineptitude probably but I'm guessing

Amongst many things. I think it's institutionalised inertia.


Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359289)
This country has been seriously let down by its politicians, both Tory and Tory lite, for some years now.

It's also been let down by the political system. Proportional Representation is what the UK needs, even if it does result in more UKIP MPs (not that I'm a fan of). Alternative Vote (which we had a referendum on previously, wasn't the best solution, but the government use that referendum's NO answer to stop calls for a referendum on PR in UK General Elections.

PR (or some form of) is already used in the UK for elections to the Scottish Parliament, Northern Ireland and Welsh Assemblies, and to elect MEPs to the EU Parliament.


Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12359301)
Yep and nothing will change whoever is next either

Because the system favours the two main parties. Unlike PR, smaller parties can get a reasonable vote without gaining any seats in Parliament. And with electoral boundary changes over the years, the party in power makes it harder for some MPs to be unseated.

EMR Oct 12th 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359189)
Lots of Remainers on this thread. Wondering what you think about the mass migration of Eastern Europeans that has partially precipitated this Brexit issue. News reported 420,000 Bulgarian and Romanians since 2014. As a pro-EU person, I like FOM, but I do feel conflicted in terms of the sheer numbers that come to the UK.

I would too if UK employment was not at record levels and unrmployment at tgr lowest for years
proving that we need the 100,s thousands of eastern Europeans just for the UK economy, services, NHS, care and leisure sectors to function.
They would not come here unless the UK could provide the jobs they are looking for.

EMR Oct 12th 2017 1:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12359263)
Actually, yes.
It was always understood that the CTA would trump the restriction on freedom of movement for EU members other than the Irish.
It seems to have come as a bit of a surprise to you, though, eh?

Not to me, I have always known that the brexit arguements were based on lies, prejudice, ignorance and misinformation.

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 1:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12359352)
Because the system favours the two main parties. Unlike PR, smaller parties can get a reasonable vote without gaining any seats in Parliament. And with electoral boundary changes over the years, the party in power makes it harder for some MPs to be unseated.

I think you are right and there are many if not most MPs who deserve to be unseated.

PR could be a mixed blessing as it will address the massive over representation of the Scottish Nasty Party but could increase MPs from parties on the extremes of the political spectrum. The Lib Dems and UKIP are likely to be the biggest winners imho.

SNP with 3% of the vote got 35 seats whilst the LD's 7.5% got them 12 seats, which can't be right surely?

EMR Oct 12th 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12359363)
I think you are right and there are many if not most MPs who deserve to be unseated.

PR could be a mixed blessing as it will address the massive over representation of the Scottish Nasty Party but could increase MPs from parties on the extremes of the political spectrum. The Lib Dems and UKIP are likely to be the biggest winners imho.

SNP with 3% of the vote got 35 seats whilst the LD's 7.5% got them 12 seats, which can't be right surely?

SNP only stood in Scotland just as all the other regional parties did in Wales and NI.

They are not national parties so your argument is meaningless.
Regions are entitled to their own parties and representation in Westminster.

SultanOfSwing Oct 12th 2017 1:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12358967)
..... and, of course, if born on the island of Ireland, you are automatically entitled to an Irish passport - so good for the North, but not the other way around.:unsure:

This is one aspect of the GFA that might help mitigate the fact that the British government seem to want to shit all over the rest of it. I'm seriously considering enacting my right to Irish citizenship in favor of renewing my British passport to use as my 2nd passport after my American one. It seems also that my daughter is entitled to Irish citizenship through me after that.

What good would it be to renew a non-EU UK passport anyway?


Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12358967)
Having said which, the sight of an Orange band travelling on paddy books would be a sight to behold!!:sneaky:

Even the DUP don't want to close the Irish border. They realise how stupid it would be as much as anyone else. Ian Paisley himself once said you can't call yourself an Ulsterman without also calling yourself an Irishman (paraphrasing there).

In reality, the triumphalist bullshit in NI needs to stop. At present, only two out of six counties are majority unionist, and that's a slim one as it is. Yet, even if Sinn Fein somehow managed to gain complete control of the Assembly, they can't just turn around and say 'Right, NI is going back to Ireland'. Irish reunification can't happen without a referendum, it's as simple as that.


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12358973)
Me too! Stop Brexit.....

Brexit is a lose-lose situation for everyone, but for the Northern Irish and Gibraltarians especially. Nothing good is going to come of it.

Yes, that was exactly my idea too.

This is a textbook lose-lose. It's not exactly a secret that mainland UK doesn't give a shit about Northern Ireland, no matter how much the DUP wants to pretend it's all a big hug fest over there. Brexit is just a new cast-iron example of this.

I'm not even sure I can call myself a unionist anymore to be honest. I wouldn't say I've gone fully the other way but I'd rather NI be part of an EU Ireland than a non-EU UK.

BristolUK Oct 12th 2017 4:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359205)
BTW does anybody know where the ball is ?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d19d987a64.jpg

Red Eric Oct 12th 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well, well, well.

In the wake of Theresa May refusing to fall into the elephant trap of giving a definitive reply to the question of which way she would vote in the hypothetical event of a 2nd Brexit referendum, all sorts of people have been pressed into responding to the same. And Jeremy Corbyn said he'd vote Remain.

Can I have a house point for having argued that he isn't actually a hard Brexiter as well as for having correctly defined his position as outlined in the rest of his comments?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-eu-referendum

macliam Oct 12th 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12359392)
This is one aspect of the GFA that might help mitigate the fact that the British government seem to want to shit all over the rest of it. I'm seriously considering enacting my right to Irish citizenship in favor of renewing my British passport to use as my 2nd passport after my American one.

Not part of the GFA, it's always been your right (well, since partition anyway) - but move fast before there's a compulsory Polish test.....;)
-
Slavs on the Shannon, who'da thought it? - always been baltic in the winter mind, sham...

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12359392)
It seems also that my daughter is entitled to Irish citizenship through me after that.

You would be an Irish citizen, so she should have entitlement (and her kids too, unless they've changed the rules).


Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12359392)
At present, only two out of six counties are majority unionist, and that's a slim one as it is. Yet, even if Sinn Fein somehow managed to gain complete control of the Assembly, they can't just turn around and say 'Right, NI is going back to Ireland'. Irish reunification can't happen without a referendum, it's as simple as that.

That was always the case - and, just as with the GFA, the Republic would need to change it's constitution - so another referendum there!

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12359392)
I'm not even sure I can call myself a unionist anymore to be honest. I wouldn't say I've gone fully the other way but I'd rather NI be part of an EU Ireland than a non-EU UK.

Typical northerner! Comes late to the party and still leaves the door open! Tá failte romhat! :D


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