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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Annetje Oct 12th 2017 8:30 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359189)
Lots of Remainers on this thread. Wondering what you think about the mass migration of Eastern Europeans that has partially precipitated this Brexit issue. News reported 420,000 Bulgarian and Romanians since 2014. As a pro-EU person, I like FOM, but I do feel conflicted in terms of the sheer numbers that come to the UK.

Probably means there are jobs for all of them and I understand, most of them do the jobs the Brits don't want to do.
Whoever doesn't have a job (3 months) the UK can throw out so there shouldn't be a problem.
Ever wondered why they don't do that ? Why did the UK not prepare systems to apply EU law ?

iano Oct 12th 2017 8:47 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359189)
Lots of Remainers on this thread. Wondering what you think about the mass migration of Eastern Europeans that has partially precipitated this Brexit issue. News reported 420,000 Bulgarian and Romanians since 2014. As a pro-EU person, I like FOM, but I do feel conflicted in terms of the sheer numbers that come to the UK.

The single biggest driver of Brexit without doubt. Labour refused to effect the available 7 year EU transition controls (of migrant numbers) when Eastern Europeans joined the EU. Unlike all the other major Western European nations.

Labour had 'forecast' around 16,000 or so bothering to come each year, and look what happened.

iano Oct 12th 2017 8:49 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
BTW does anybody know where the ball is ?

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 8:51 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Annetje (Post 12359198)
Ever wondered why they don't do that ? Why did the UK not prepare systems to apply EU law ?

Yes I often wondered.

I think I may have some idea as to the answer to your second question , however, given I am a real cynic I will stay quiet.

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 8:53 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359205)
BTW does anybody know where the ball is ?

If it is the "other" ball I believe it is "In The Albert Hall" according to the song

Novocastrian Oct 12th 2017 8:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12359207)
Yes I often wondered.

I think I may have some idea as to the answer to your second question , however, given I am a real cynic I will stay quiet.

Could it be the same reason that they count foreign students as immigrants? :nod:

GeniB Oct 12th 2017 9:02 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359204)
The single biggest driver of Brexit without doubt. Labour refused to effect the available 7 year EU transition controls (of migrant numbers) when Eastern Europeans joined the EU. Unlike all the other major Western European nations.

Labour had 'forecast' around 16,000 or so bothering to come each year, and look what happened.

It was actually explained to the public last night in a TV Docu There was a report issued by a German statistician when the wall came down and Russia lost control .He guesstimated that the UK would receive about 14,000 eastern european migrants per year. As would other EU countries. Germany proposed the plan to accept them , and the UK agreed. However the report was later amended and Germany backed out ..The Uk didn't (thats in its simplest terms) Now the UK has one in five workers. being migrants. This is a separate issue from the refugees which then made up the perfect storm for the EU.

Shard Oct 12th 2017 9:04 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359204)
The single biggest driver of Brexit without doubt. Labour refused to effect the available 7 year EU transition controls (of migrant numbers) when Eastern Europeans joined the EU. Unlike all the other major Western European nations.

Labour had 'forecast' around 16,000 or so bothering to come each year, and look what happened.

I recall in 2014 the media were ridiculing the worries that some had that country would be flooded with new members, and making a big song and dance about how only a few thousand people had arrived in the first month. I think it's this kind of condescending tone which got a lot of Brexiters backs up.

Many do have jobs and contribute, however there are gaps too. Take for example the ubiquitous supermarket car wash teams. On their low wages they and their families will be receiving significant support from the state to undertake their work, but it's debatable whether such labour ought to be subsidized in the first place. Strawberry pickers yes (we need them) car washers no. Then there are the elderly that come to the UK to retire, but unlike Brits in Spain, are not a source of funds but a use. I think if the UK didn't take quite so an 'all or nothing' approach to EU immigration the situation would have been more manageable. Apart from the 7 year transition period, I perceive there to be far fewer official barriers to resettlement in the UK than amongst EU neighbours.

macliam Oct 12th 2017 9:08 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359189)
Lots of Remainers on this thread. Wondering what you think about the mass migration of Eastern Europeans that has partially precipitated this Brexit issue. News reported 420,000 Bulgarian and Romanians since 2014. As a pro-EU person, I like FOM, but I do feel conflicted in terms of the sheer numbers that come to the UK.

I'd be interested as to how they can do anything but "guesstimate" the numbers ..... given that the border farce seem incapable of counting those coming in and can't be bothered to count those leaving. So where does the 420,000 come from? High enough to arouse concern, not high enough to seem unlikely?.... How many of the 420,000 have stayed?

Even if true, as has been said before, the EU visa is only 90 days after which most EU states require immigrants to register - and can refuse registration if the applicant cannot support themselves. Of course, the UK has never bothered to register anyone or to apply the 90-day rule, far better to do nothing and moan.

GeniB Oct 12th 2017 9:14 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359217)
I recall in 2014 the media were ridiculing the worries that some had that country would be flooded with new members, and making a big song and dance about how only a few thousand people had arrived in the first month. I think it's this kind of condescending tone which got a lot of Brexiters backs up.

Many do have jobs and contribute, however there are gaps too. Take for example the ubiquitous supermarket car wash teams. On their low wages they and their families will be receiving significant support from the state to undertake their work, but it's debatable whether such labour ought to be subsidized in the first place. Strawberry pickers yes (we need them) car washers no. Then there are the elderly that come to the UK to retire, but unlike Brits in Spain, are not a source of funds but a use. I think if the UK didn't take quite so an 'all or nothing' approach to EU immigration the situation would have been more manageable. Apart from the 7 year transition period, I perceive there to be far fewer official barriers to resettlement in the UK than amongst EU neighbours.

It actually would seem from the Docu i referred to above. That it was our MP's and more especially our MEP'S who let the country down, by being totally ill informed about what actions they could take. The German statistician said the the UK obviously had not read the amendments. to that earlier report .

I do know from experience that you cannot simple arrive in another EU country without means of support. You have to have a job.You have to register at the equivalent of the Town Hall . Have an identity card. A work permit. etc

None of these things are in place in the UK because they have always rejected them.Always only wanted the bit of the EU 'cake ' that they agreed with. They like a cheap ,unregistered work force. It has come back to bite them

iano Oct 12th 2017 9:21 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12359211)
If it is the "other" ball I believe it is "In The Albert Hall" according to the song

Yes, but which court is it in ?

Nobody seems to know.

Shard Oct 12th 2017 9:22 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12359221)
I'd be interested as to how they can do anything but "guesstimate" the numbers ..... given that the border farce seem incapable of counting those coming in and can't be bothered to count those leaving. So where does the 420,000 come from? High enough to arouse concern, not high enough to seem unlikely?.... How many of the 420,000 have stayed?

Even if true, as has been said before, the EU visa is only 90 days after which most EU states require immigrants to register - and can refuse registration if the applicant cannot support themselves. Of course, the UK has never bothered to register anyone or to apply the 90-day rule, far better to do nothing and moan.

Yes it's that 90 day rule I was thinking about. Is the UK the only member that does not impose it?

DaveLovesDee Oct 12th 2017 9:25 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12359217)
I perceive there to be far fewer official barriers to resettlement in the UK than amongst EU neighbours.

Not according to my experience (and that of members of groups I'm in) of dealing with the Home Office regarding applications under EU law.

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 9:46 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Novocastrian (Post 12359214)
Could it be the same reason that they count foreign students as immigrants? :nod:

not the same but there are some passing similarities

Garbatellamike Oct 12th 2017 9:49 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12359226)
Yes, but which court is it in ?

Nobody seems to know.

I think many people claim to know but there seems to be a small difference of opinion as to whose court the ball is in at the moment - they'll sort it out by early 2019 methinks so not holding my breath.


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