British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Lion in Winter Oct 10th 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12357816)
Because the word seems to have several different meanings. I think you can refer to people of the EU as EU citizens, they are also citizens of their own separate countries.
I am a UK citizen, I am also an overseas citizen of another country (have a blue passport type booklet to prove it! )

It seems pretty clear to me:

"Citizenship of the European Union is enshrined in the EU Treaty: ‘Every person holding the nationality of a member state shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship’."

What does it mean to be a European citizen?

EMR Oct 10th 2017 2:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12357835)
Did the man responsible for a draft Constitution Treaty re draft it as the Lisbon Treaty with the changes I said above?
Did he himself state this?---YES or NO ---must be too complex for you? :lol:

What he mean,t makes no difference to the legal wording of what the UK and others signed up to.
IF I say in my opinion its not Tuesday but weds does that make it a fact in your world.

EMR Oct 10th 2017 2:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12357838)
Not particularly about HS2 More about 'real' investment as opposed to the miserly sum of 300million. Thats chump change in the USA. if you are really serious about building something game changing .It has to be in the billions...Um rather like the spending on defence

300 million a misery sum ? But it's not , HS2 total cost over 50billion.
Those who will gain employment or companies in the UK work will not thank you for dismissal of HS2

Golden Years Oct 10th 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12357701)
Still do not understand do you.
Any new treaty would be subject to acceptance by the UK.
We might even have a referendum on it.
British farmers love the CAP at least the millionaire farming Tory mps do.

I think you are being naive if you don't realise that the EU will move to majority voting on everything during the next expansionary phase.
The old vetoes will "bought out" with promises that are never kept.
The current EU set up is anathema to many people. If you listen to the expectations of people like Juncker, Macron etc. it will only get worse.

Garbatellamike Oct 10th 2017 3:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12357842)
It seems pretty clear to me:

"Citizenship of the European Union is enshrined in the EU Treaty: ‘Every person holding the nationality of a member state shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship’."

That's as clear as it can be for sure

EMR Oct 10th 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12357879)
I think you are being naive if you don't realise that the EU will move to majority voting on everything during the next expansionary phase.
The old vetoes will "bought out" with promises that are never kept.
The current EU set up is anathema to many people. If you listen to the expectations of people like Juncker, Macron etc. it will only get worse.

Conspiracy conspiracy, brexit thy name is conspiracy.
The EU may well be able to reform but without the UK stuck on the sidelines.
At least you now agree we have vetoes and that the changes you fear cannot happen while we are a member.
Some progress at last.

Lion in Winter Oct 10th 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12357881)
That's as clear as it can be for sure

And some of those dodgy rights you have as an EU citizen. Clearly we need our country back.....

"The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU contains six headings – Dignity, Freedoms, Equality, Solidarity, Citizens’ rights and Justice under which fall 54 articles that set out the EU’s fundamental values and the civil, political, economic and social rights of EU citizens.

The opening articles cover human dignity, the right to life, the right to the ‘integrity of the person’ and the right to freedom of expression and of conscience. The chapter on solidarity brings together, in an innovative way, social and economic rights such as:

the right to strike;
the right of workers to be informed and consulted;
the right to reconcile family life and professional life;
the right to healthcare, social security and social assistance throughout the European Union.

The Charter also promotes equality between men and women and introduces rights such as data protection, a ban on eugenic practices and the reproductive cloning of human beings, the right to environmental protection, the rights of children and elderly people and the right to good administration."

Bipat Oct 10th 2017 3:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12357842)
It seems pretty clear to me:

"Citizenship of the European Union is enshrined in the EU Treaty: ‘Every person holding the nationality of a member state shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship’."

What does it mean to be a European citizen?

That is what I said, the word has different meanings according to context. You can be a citizen of the EU but also a citizen of one of the member countries.
For other countries (they do exist beyond EU country borders!:lol:) definitions may be different citizenship and nationality may be the same or not according to the rules of the particular country.

Lion in Winter Oct 10th 2017 3:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12357887)
That is what I said, the word has different meanings according to context. You can be a citizen of the EU but also a citizen of one of the member countries.
For other countries (they do exist beyond EU country borders!:lol:) definitions may be different citizenship and nationality may be the same or not according to the rules of the particular country.

We were talking about what the term "EU citizen" means. The meaning is completely clear, and the term "EU citizen" doesn't indicate different things in different contexts, it means one thing as defined above. The other "context" you are now introducing is in fact a different term, "national citizen", and that isn't unclear either - it isn't a context at all, it's a different thing.

Bipat Oct 10th 2017 3:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12357846)
300 million a misery sum ? But it's not , HS2 total cost over 50billion.
Those who will gain employment or companies in the UK work will not thank you for dismissal of HS2

What about those in the line of the track those losing homes, villages, life time businesses etc.? what can compensate them--? Just for the sake of wealthy business men to gain half hour of time in travel.

Bipat Oct 10th 2017 3:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12357889)
We were talking about what the term "EU citizen" means. The meaning is completely clear, and the term "EU citizen" doesn't indicate different things in different contexts, it means one thing as defined above. The other "context" you are now introducing is in fact a different term, "national citizen", and that isn't unclear either - it isn't a context at all, it's a different thing.

No it is not always a "national citizen" that I was referring to.

BristolUK Oct 10th 2017 3:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12357780)
Pete North is not much liked by Brexiteers...

That had me confused for a minute and then I saw it was Pete rather than Peter. :blink:

Annetje Oct 10th 2017 3:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12357780)
Pete North is not much liked by Brexiteers.

Has to be said that it's amazing that he is one - if anything were to persuade someone to being a remainer it's his blog.

He sees all the downsides and still is a leaver. The rest of them haven't seen the downsides yet - but they will - and they will still be leavers.

It's a thing of faith - a religion

As in brainwashed I assume ... by ''The Press'' for a long time maybe :starsmile:

jimenato Oct 10th 2017 3:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12357896)
That had me confused for a minute and then I saw it was Pete rather than Peter. :blink:

I have no idea who Peter North is.:angel:

Garbatellamike Oct 10th 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12357886)
And some of those dodgy rights you have as an EU citizen. Clearly we need our country back.....

"The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU contains six headings – Dignity, Freedoms, Equality, Solidarity, Citizens’ rights and Justice under which fall 54 articles that set out the EU’s fundamental values and the civil, political, economic and social rights of EU citizens.

The opening articles cover human dignity, the right to life, the right to the ‘integrity of the person’ and the right to freedom of expression and of conscience. The chapter on solidarity brings together, in an innovative way, social and economic rights such as:

the right to strike;
the right of workers to be informed and consulted;
the right to reconcile family life and professional life;
the right to healthcare, social security and social assistance throughout the European Union.

The Charter also promotes equality between men and women and introduces rights such as data protection, a ban on eugenic practices and the reproductive cloning of human beings, the right to environmental protection, the rights of children and elderly people and the right to good administration."

the first 3 of your rights we had before the EU but you make a good point with your 4th one


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:54 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.