British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

GeniB Sep 26th 2017 8:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12345859)
I know the arguments, of course it would be easier without them. I am just answering above posts.
My point is that thousands of people coming from non-EU countries do it without any great problem. (Including those who used to have free-movement). Their personal situations are not that difficult.

Bipat You constantly insist that life would be no different if we were not in the EU. That moving from one country to another would be simple. Visa's issued,no problem. Work permits? ditto..
I would love you to have explained that to my ED when she tried to get a job in the USA . When she had to jump through all kinds of' hoops'. When she sat for 6 hrs of interrogation in customs to explain why she was back in the states for a third time in a year!?.All her paperwork and diaries checked to look for an illegal job . Why she hadn't married her finance within the 90 days her 'finance's visa' issued by the USA had expired ?

You basically have zero idea about which you 'bang on'

Shard Sep 26th 2017 8:41 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Anyone who says a visa is equivalent to rights is delusional. Even if the visa process is straightforward (rarely the case) the fact that you don't have a right, that there is a risk to future plans, that you are a second-class inhabitant is enough to discourage most people from making a move. People don't go to live where they are not wanted. FOM is fundamental.

amideislas Sep 26th 2017 8:45 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Isn't that the point of it all? (to stop foreigners from living in the UK).

EMR Sep 26th 2017 8:48 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12346726)
Isn't that the point of it all? (to stop foreigners from living in the UK).

Commonwealth immigration act is a perfect example.

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 8:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12346617)
If it is sooooooo easy to get a visa why do you stress the need for one? Isn't it because you revel in your status as elite and want the poor to stay where they belong?

What a bizarre post! Do you really think all the non-EU citizens coming to the UK to migrate/work/ visit are "elite".

(I always get the impression from this thread that it is the EU expats that are elite. I remember a poster remarking that post Brexit people would 'make their own sandwiches and hang out their washing'--when in fact most UK people already do this!!!)

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 9:00 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12346716)
Bipat You constantly insist that life would be no different if we were not in the EU. That moving from one country to another would be simple. Visa's issued,no problem. Work permits? ditto..
I would love you to have explained that to my ED when she tried to get a job in the USA . When she had to jump through all kinds of' hoops'. When she sat for 6 hrs of interrogation in customs to explain why she was back in the states for a third time in a year!?.All her paperwork and diaries checked to look for an illegal job . Why she hadn't married her finance within the 90 days her 'finance's visa' issued by the USA had expired ?

You basically have zero idea about which you 'bang on'

It doesn't have to be like the USA--each country makes its own regulations.

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 9:06 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12346723)
Anyone who says a visa is equivalent to rights is delusional. Even if the visa process is straightforward (rarely the case) the fact that you don't have a right, that there is a risk to future plans, that you are a second-class inhabitant is enough to discourage most people from making a move. People don't go to live where they are not wanted. FOM is fundamental.

No obviously it is not a "right". Neither is it a sign that you are not wanted. It is a method of checking who is coming and going from the country.

Do you think anyone from anywhere should have the "right" to live in the UK?

It doesn't seem to discourage non-EU citizens coming to the UK or elsewhere in Europe for a various reasons. The multiple daily flights into UK are full. As I said visas are usually reciprocal.

EMR Sep 26th 2017 9:09 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12346739)
It doesn't have to be like the USA--each country makes its own regulations.

Do you ever watch the UK prob on our border controls.
We are just as strict as the US when it comes to enforcing our rules of entry and residence.

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 9:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12346732)
Commonwealth immigration act is a perfect example.

It might interest you to know that visas were first introduced for travellers from UK to India specifically to prevent a terror group active at the time in the UK, to get entry there.

Of course they were continued and the rules have varied over the years according to further terrorist problems.
Rules regarding visas into the UK have also varied frequently---everything doesn't have to be the same all the time!!

Why the big deal about visas? Do you all think passports should be abolished?

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 9:16 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12346746)
Do you ever watch the UK prob on our border controls.
We are just as strict as the US when it comes to enforcing our rules of entry and residence.

EMR I obviously know about border controls in UK and elsewhere!

Enforcing rules is a different matter than making multiple complicated rules.

EMR Sep 26th 2017 9:19 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12346748)
It might interest you to know that visas were first introduced for travellers from UK to India specifically to prevent a terror group active at the time in the UK, to get entry there.

Of course they were continued and the rules have varied over the years according to further terrorist problems.
Rules regarding visas into the UK have also varied frequently---everything doesn't have to be the same all the time!!

Why the big deal about visas? Do you all think passports should be abolished?

Don,t be silly.Both the 62 act and one a few years later.
It was introduced to stem the flow of immigrants from India who were arriving in masses at that time.
The Labour leader at that time called it cruel and " anti colour legislation ".
Remember I grew up in Southall.
I do not have an issue with visas .
If every EU migrant had a visa you would still be complaining that there are too many of them, and that the system is unfair.

DaveLovesDee Sep 26th 2017 9:29 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12346748)
Why the big deal about visas? Do you all think passports should be abolished?

Free movement puts the onus on the receiving country to find a reason for refusal. Visas put the onus on the applicant to prove they should be admitted to the receiving country.

A visa isn't guaranteed to be issued, and when applying for future visas, you have to list any previous visa refusals from any country. If the visa has been refused, you'll find it much harder to get a visa for certain other countries.

UK Visa Refusal


I've read back a few pages again and can't see where anyone has suggested that passports be abolished though. Yet you've asked whether we think passports should be abolished a few times over the months post-referendum....

amideislas Sep 26th 2017 9:32 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12346748)

Why the big deal about visas? Do you all think passports should be abolished?

Do you think snails should have their legs amputated? or should goat cheese be made with oranges?

Is it faster to New York, or by plane?

Do you sleep at night, or with the windows open?

Shard Sep 26th 2017 9:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12346744)
No obviously it is not a "right". Neither is it a sign that you are not wanted. It is a method of checking who is coming and going from the country.

Do you think anyone from anywhere should have the "right" to live in the UK?

It doesn't seem to discourage non-EU citizens coming to the UK or elsewhere in Europe for a various reasons. The multiple daily flights into UK are full. As I said visas are usually reciprocal.

We're talking about Europe here. 28 nations that agreed to FOM. So, no, I don't think "anyone from anywhere" should have that right, but I think it's mutually beneficial for Europeans to have that right. I would like to get to a point, in many decades time, when anyone from anywhere can live where they want. As a species I think that's the way to go. I don't like petty minded nationalism.

Bipat Sep 26th 2017 9:51 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12346769)
We're talking about Europe here. 28 nations that agreed to FOM. So, no, I don't think "anyone from anywhere" should have that right, but I think it's mutually beneficial for Europeans to have that right. I would like to get to a point, in many decades time, when anyone from anywhere can live where they want. As a species I think that's the way to go. I don't like petty minded nationalism.

Yes it was one of the benefits of membership of the EU, (not all Europeans have that right --just EU member countries!)


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