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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Sep 24th 2017, 10:54 pm
  #22291  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
In different ways. As I said, get used to it.
Maybe get used to understandung all issues and all sides this impacts.

Last edited by Richard8655; Sep 24th 2017 at 10:58 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 11:12 pm
  #22292  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by LouisB View Post
Brexit is;

Pontification and delays to avoid admitting brexit is a bad idea and there is no such thing as a good brexit. It's getting harder to avoid facing it as each day goes by, but the elephant in the room is there all the same.

Vs. urgency that elites with lots of money want to avoid paying more tax and can at this time leverage the generally uniformed public (sorry to say, but this is evidently true) who fell for various misdirections, including many fuelled by those outside Europe who would like to see it lose power to their advantage..

This dichotomy will continue to play out.

As they say, it's much easier to fool the people than to get them to admit they've been fooled.

All the time brexit threatens the UK's prosperity, standing, credibility and its citizens freedoms, the patriotic choice is obvious and history will record it with hindsight that makes it crystal clear.

In 5 years finding a people who admit to brexit will be like finding people now who admit to supporting the Iraq war. Proof that bad things can happen on mass. And occasionally do, but eventually natural corrections take place. For brexit, if it does go ahead (more doubtful by the day), it won't be long before the younger generations have their say and set things straight again. The sad thing is to endure the pointless misery in the mean time, so keep fighting...

There are lots of things wrong in the UK, brexit solves none and will probably cause yet more.

It'll be by far the best if the UK focuses on the causes which are home grown and gets those sorted out, before taking the weak spineless way out which is blaming others, while solving nothing at all.
How does Brexit limit British citizens freedoms?
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 11:13 pm
  #22293  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Please check after posting that you have not 'cocked up' the quotes. Posts containing such posts will be removed, thanks.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 11:16 pm
  #22294  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
How does Brexit limit British citizens freedoms?
No longer able to live and work in the EU?

Last edited by Richard8655; Sep 24th 2017 at 11:22 pm.
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 11:23 pm
  #22295  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
No longer able to live and work in the EU?
British people have lived and worked in what are now EU countries throughout history, why would that change Post Brexit?
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Old Sep 24th 2017, 11:40 pm
  #22296  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
British people have lived and worked in what are now EU countries throughout history, why would that change Post Brexit?
I don't believe automatic right to live and work would exist anymore. Potentially permanent residence permission would need to be requested and applied for, and then granted or denied. Much different than the current situation where freedom of movement is a right without question.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 12:23 am
  #22297  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
No longer able to live and work in the EU?
Clue is in the name 'freedom of movement', I wonder why people still ask such things, goading or gullibility - not sure.

Also how hard can it be not to confuse this with general migration. Sure people do move and work overseas, but a massive difference between possibly getting a visa if you have bestowed certain in demand qualities vs. Having it on your passport equally for all citizens. That's true freedom...

Last edited by LouisB; Sep 25th 2017 at 12:25 am.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 4:55 am
  #22298  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
I don't believe automatic right to live and work would exist anymore. Potentially permanent residence permission would need to be requested and applied for, and then granted or denied. Much different than the current situation where freedom of movement is a right without question.
It is the normal people who have not enough money or skills who will be limited by Brexit. The ones Bipat is talking about are the well off families who used to be able to move around more or less freely before the single market and will do so after Brexit. She equates the possibilities of the elite with the freedom of movement for all. Somehow she can't see the less well off families.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 5:00 am
  #22299  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas View Post
AfD is forecast to win 13.5% of votes cast in the German elections. UKIP won 14.1% in 2015. Strange coincidence.
Germany is not the UK. So if you know shit about Germany please don't try to compare the reasons why the AFD has won so many votes with UKIP succes. The reasons of AFD success have nothing to do with the EU. It is because of bad national politics....🤔🤔 speaking of this, maybe the UK and Germany are closer in this than I thought 😘
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 5:35 am
  #22300  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
Germany is not the UK. So if you know shit about Germany please don't try to compare the reasons why the AFD has won so many votes with UKIP succes. The reasons of AFD success have nothing to do with the EU. It is because of bad national politics....🤔🤔 speaking of this, maybe the UK and Germany are closer in this than I thought 😘
Oh, how reassuring - yet another expert on this thread
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 6:00 am
  #22301  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

The last thing we need are people who know anything.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 6:41 am
  #22302  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
The last thing we need are people who know anything.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 6:42 am
  #22303  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by iano View Post
Admittedly 'Ever closer union' is open to interpretation, but it could equally mean ever closer cooperation rather than federalism. A belief in subsidiarity underpins the EU, a Frenchman identifies as no less 'French' than an Englishman identifies as 'English', same goes throughout Europe. 'Sovereignty' is important to all Europeans, just some are more accepting of sharing it. Anyway, haven't we already opted out of 'closer integration' ? What's the fear ?

Expansion of the EU, makes federalism as a motive appear even less likely. The day when German taxpayers willingly stump up to subsidise Romanian pensioners is worlds away.
Quite agree There is a huge element of 'headinthesandism' in the UK ,or at least in those who speak for the UK. The reality of life in 2017 is that we cannot stand alone in a world that is increasingly dominated by a super power( and or a runner up super power) To make the EU into the bogey man ,the stealer of something so vague as 'Sovereignty' is to side step the real issues. of security and trade. Our future, and that of our grandchildren in other words.

Millions of us could not say today what we are,where our allegiances lie. For many it's the city we live in 'first' + football club of course.Then the county (red or white rose anyone? ) North or South.? As ex-pats on here, the new country we live in also falls into the mix. After so many yrs living in other EU countries I do feel more European. than strictly British
Its not new to feel this way either. Ever wondered what the countries under Roman rule felt like? Under the Ottomans ? etc . I was amazed to find an inscription from a Serbian soldier (mercenary for the Romans) ,on the wall of bath house in the Lake District .He was saying that he had chosen to remain in the UK.(he did and married a Brit)We have forgotten all that.That we lived through tremendous changes in our past ,and benefited from them .

Some people at 'home' hate change and the perceived erosion of their position.Some people abroad, hate changes going on at 'home' they have reserved it, as it was ,the place they will eventually go back to. .

We all know though that nothing stays the same . Just as all those ancient 'leaders' frantically made more human sacrifices to their gods to stop change. We shouldn't be blind to ours doing the same out of fear of losing their power.
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 6:56 am
  #22304  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
It is the normal people who have not enough money or skills who will be limited by Brexit. The ones Bipat is talking about are the well off families who used to be able to move around more or less freely before the single market and will do so after Brexit. She equates the possibilities of the elite with the freedom of movement for all. Somehow she can't see the less well off families.
It will depend on the restrictions imposed by each individual country. When free movement of Commonwealth citizens to the UK ended they didn't stop coming and it is certainly not just the "well off".
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Old Sep 25th 2017, 7:01 am
  #22305  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
The last thing we need are people who know anything.
I should hope so too!
Allow that sort of thing and entire groups could be done away with.... bankers, disc-jockeys, radio & TV pundits, traffic wardens, black-cab-drivers, estate agents...
I maintain an unshakeable belief that the universal franchise is a mistake - one takes an exam to drive a car, or drive a train , so why not to vote???
I'd start with 17.2 millions in one nation....
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