Red Eric

None of them has the slightest desire to, though - that's the odd thing as far as I'm concerned. And there's absolutely no guarantee that those making the move to other EU member states didn't vote to leave, either

Garbatellamike

Are they not more likely to be older remainers? Or am I missing something?

Annetje

Ok, sorry, got carried away there ...

Garbatellamike

thanks

iano

Could well be a rash move depending how messy it all gets. The UK has proposed 'settled resident status' only for those EU citizens with 5 years continuous legal residence, and if the EU reciprocates ?

A non-EU residence permit for retirees in Spain demands proof of an annual income of around 32,000 euros per couple..ouch.

SilviaAlgarve

Do you know how much it is for Portugal?
I can't find the answer anywhere.

iano

Found this for US retirees (July 2016), so assuming all third country (non-EU) citizens are treated the same:

Proof of Financial Means / Proof of Sufficient Funds: What constitutes 'sufficient' varies; some Consulates have required that each applicant has 50,000€ available in any combination of accounts, income and savings while others have requested proof of at least the equivalent of 40€ of funds per day for each day you'll be in Portugal plus 75.00€ per entry into the country.

Assuming the 40€ is pppd then for a couple that equates to 28,480€ per annum. Ouch !

Expat Exchange - United States Citizens Moving to Portugal: Demystifying the Paper Trail - Moving to Portugal, Porgual Residency Visa

Garbatellamike

yes indeed - the EU doesn't seem to want a reciprical agreement but sees Brits in EU countries as a bargaining chip - good job Keir Starmer isn't leading the UK team else we'd have real problems......

Garbatellamike

Anyway after the ~Big Ben announcement today, Mrs Merkel has said this:

For those unsure - the above is a joke (and not mine originally)

Red Eric

Go on, then. I'll rise to the provocation.

How do you arrive at that when the EU appears to have done so much more to address the concerns of ordinary citizens on either side and their starting point is that all currrent rights ought to be preserved in perpetuity for anybody already resident, whereas the UK starting point is to reduce rights for EU citizens resident in the UK and who-knows-what regarding their ongoing responsibilities towards expat Brits residing in the EU?

I'm very sorry to have to say that as I suspected all along would be the case, the EU seems the better bet when it comes to preservation of our rights.

Expatrick

Garbatellamike

Well let me see:

one side offered an immediate reciprical arrangement
the other side turned it down and insisted it should be part of the overall deal thereby prolonging the uncertainty
that other side's first offer just offers you residence in the country you are current lt in making you 2nd class citizens

one side wants a simple equal solution the other wants to bargain with your rights.......

007Steve

However much it is, just remember which side has decided to sell you down the river as part of their 'safeguarding UK residents overseas' pledge.
Future 3rd class emigre status; - Count on it.

Red Eric

The UK's pretence of wanting to get the issue settled by starting early on a reciprocal arrangement was a bit of sleight of hand aimed at disguising their intent to reduce rights. Admittedly it appears to have worked on its intended audience but it's not at all convincing in the face of the EU's opening stance of guaranteeing all rights (going way beyond the simple right to continue residing), in full and in perpetuity.

I don't know what on earth gives rise to the "2nd class citizens" idea in the light of that although I do fully agree with your last sentence

Garbatellamike

try reading my post again and it may help your confusion

If it helps the EU negotiators have moved on from the EU's opening stance but hopefully it is just a bargaining ploy - I think the sooner the uncertainty is ended the better -