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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:37 pm
  #20896  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I have written probably 50+ postings on this forum in recent months, although no doubt Eric will tell me it is only 48 and surprisingly I don't have a photographic memory. It goes without saying that when I said I didn't do it, that means I don't recall doing it...and I certainly didn't intend to do it, as I have already explained.
Is that your defence, because my kids learned the difference between 'I didn't do it' and 'I don't remember doing it' when they were about 6 or 7.

I don't remember every post I've ever written, but I don't get in a huff when it's pointed out that I did say something I hadn't thought I'd said.

Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
So that means if you don't have any answers to an important question, then there no longer any reason to ask the question. The good old "Kansas City shuffle" and it seems to have worked on this thread, 1,400 pages and a year on.
Post 20863


...and yes, now that is dealt with what do we do now? Now we have a bunch or "establishment" Remainers in charge, we have the poachers now pretending to be gamekeepers. The Tories are bad, Labour are a con-men and the Liberal are just plain stupid I guess we ask hero Farage to begin the fight all over again, until we get what we, the people want.
What exactly do the people want? And which people? 51.8% of voters voted to leave the EU, 48.2% didn't. I'm one of the people, so I assume what I want is as relevent as anyone else's wants.

Or do only those who voted Leave get to have their wants heard?

...or the optimists explanation, that this is all a bluff on behalf of the government. Look weak and then sucker punch the bastards.

You also have to look at the possible break up of the EU, a very real possibility.
The EU break up? Seriously? Why would the EU break up? If a country decides to leave the EU, there's a procedure. No-one's going to force a member to stay if they don't want to be a member any longer.

The EU is not reliant on a single member, or even 2 or 3. The Council of the European Union are the Heads of State of each member state.

Not to worry though, Iceland maybe considering going from being an EEA member to an actual EU member, though it may come down to a referendum of the Icelandic people.

Why didn't we think of this when we voted "out"? Well when you are up to you teeth in shit...you just wanna get out of the shit. And hope someone has a shower. Seems some of you guys are determined to keep the water off.
The problem is the UK political system. When, as has been for the last 45 years pre-Corbyn, you've had Tory and New Labour parties with little difference between them, UK politics has been poorly served by both main parties.

We need to change from the first-past-the-post system to a proportional representation, as the current system gives smaller parties fewer MPs than PR would (which would benefit UKIP and the Green Party if we had PR). I'm not a fan of UKIP, but their vote count deserved more MPs.

This is not the end of the world, it means you may have a little less money for a couple of years. Cut down on the beer a little, it's better for you anyway.
How can I cut down when I neither drink nor smoke? Should I travel to work less? Are you one of those who would be happy for others to lose their jobs just to get Brexit?
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:38 pm
  #20897  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I have to say you guys have lost your handle on reality, "Maybe somebody should have thought through this before committing to the most important decision since WWII."

Listen to yourselves, what cracker factory have you been visiting? We sent our soldiers to die in the invasion of two countries, where we murdered 2 million people, men women and children, who had done nothing at all to us. Then we reelected this piece of dog shit and his murdering cronies!!

....and this Brexit is the most important decision since WW2? a decision which may mean you are without a beer for a day or so.

You have been revelling in this self pity for so long, that you really think we are all going to die because we are leaving the EU?

What is wrong with you people? Get a bloody life!
This seems to echo your sentiments:

If the cultural roots of Brexit are reduced to one sentiment, it is that Britain did not win two world wars to be run by Germany via Brussels.

Nigel Farage, the king of Brexit, tweeted that he urged all young people to see Dunkirk. It is entirely fitting that younger Britons should act as the custodians of that memory, to be honored and passed on to the next generation. The summer of 1940, when Britain stood alone against Hitler, was indeed the country’s finest hour in modern times: Never was so much owed by so many to so few.

Spoiler:

Take first Prime Minister Theresa May’s claim that leaving the EU will allow Britain to once again become a “great, global trading nation,” a call that harks back to the imperial world before 1945.

The historical reality was that for better or worse, World War II broke the British Empire, which was effectively mortgaged to pay for the vast costs of the conflict. The British Empire’s trade zone was broken by a series of sterling crises in the 1960s and the politics of decolonization. The big cargo ships had all but disappeared from London’s docks by the time the U.K. joined the EU’s predecessor, the European Economic Community in 1973.

The U.K. that joined the European institution was on its knees, requiring an International Monetary Fund bailout in 1976. Against Labour Party opposition, the Conservative government that brought Britain into the EEC did so on the basis of free trade. It was none other than Margaret Thatcher who pushed to open up the European single market in the 1980s.

In short, the EU was the answer to the collapse of Britain as a great trading empire, not its cause. The argument that the most deeply integrated free trade area in the world is holding back free trade is ridiculous — look no further than Germany’s huge success as an exporting nation.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:53 pm
  #20898  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
I have to say you guys have lost your handle on reality, "Maybe somebody should have thought through this before committing to the most important decision since WWII."
What's the Brexit plan?

Listen to yourselves, what cracker factory have you been visiting? We sent our soldiers to die in the invasion of two countries, where we murdered 2 million people, men women and children, who had done nothing at all to us. Then we reelected this piece of dog shit and his murdering cronies!!
Which is relevant to the EU how?

....and this Brexit is the most important decision since WW2? a decision which may mean you are without a beer for a day or so.

You have been revelling in this self pity for so long, that you really think we are all going to die because we are leaving the EU?

What is wrong with you people? Get a bloody life!
Nobody thinks we're going to die because we're leaving the EU. But I certainly remember being told by Leavers that Remain's claim we'd be poorer after Brexit was Project Fear. It seems like it's an accepted fact now, and we're being told to 'suck it up'.

But you'll be ok, you'll just stay in a country which isn't leaving, and reap the benefits of an exchange rate where Sterling is decreasing in value.

Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
There is this never ending contradiction in your arguments. Then you are asked two simple questions about the very fundamentals of what you believe and instead of answering either of them, you demand answers from me, about some petty complete nothing. It's pathetic.
I answered your 2 questions in post #20863
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:56 pm
  #20899  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
And Eric, you still don’t understand much, do you, yet you are a big voice, or so you think. Farage is a leader, no matter what piss-taking you want to give me with that statement. Without Farage we would not have had a referendum and we would not be leaving the EU, would we? He doesn’t need to be elected to a position of anything as his mere presence in a campaign will sway enough voters to get the job done, which he has done. So instead of calling others pillocks maybe you and others on here should look to themselves and recognise what you are when you post such stupid statements. (Once again, you are the clever one and those who voice another opinion are pillocks. What arrogant nonsense you talk.)
Ooooo er. I've upset la mancha again.

I was calling AllanB a pillock because he is one. He posts shit that even he doesn't remember, denies it, demands apologies and makes accusations of fake quoting before finally running out of alternatives and admitting he was under the influence when posting. And he makes stuff up about what everybody else posts. He's the personification of every stereotype of the worst sort of Brexiter. Not very much at all to do with me having a slight difference of opinion with him.

Don't worry - it's not a term I'll be extending to all Brexiters, just the pillocks. Believe it or not, there are some people who voted to leave who seem perfectly well-informed and whose opinions, as a consequence, I can stomach.

I haven't any respect whatsoever for Farage and his fanboys though, I'm afraid. I don't think it's admirable to run a campaign in which there's nothing to which you won't stoop to get your way. However, I'm firmly of the opinion that, come what may, Farage is finished as far as Brexit's concerned, even if it doesn't go his way. The prospect of another referendum - on any connected matter - looks remote at the moment, so he's a sideshow at best. Even if there were to be a referendum - for example on an "accept or reject" basis for the parting agreement - I can't see him having any effect on it. The further we get down the line, the more the attitude in the UK will soften, in my opinion. Not that it was ever that hard.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:59 pm
  #20900  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Moaning that people arrogantly talk nonsense but also whining that your arrogant nonsense isn't listened to.
Just how old are you?
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 3:48 pm
  #20901  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
This seems to echo your sentiments:

If the cultural roots of Brexit are reduced to one sentiment, it is that Britain did not win two world wars to be run by Germany via Brussels.

Nigel Farage, the king of Brexit, tweeted that he urged all young people to see Dunkirk. It is entirely fitting that younger Britons should act as the custodians of that memory, to be honored and passed on to the next generation. The summer of 1940, when Britain stood alone against Hitler, was indeed the country’s finest hour in modern times: Never was so much owed by so many to so few.

Spoiler:

Take first Prime Minister Theresa May’s claim that leaving the EU will allow Britain to once again become a “great, global trading nation,” a call that harks back to the imperial world before 1945.

The historical reality was that for better or worse, World War II broke the British Empire, which was effectively mortgaged to pay for the vast costs of the conflict. The British Empire’s trade zone was broken by a series of sterling crises in the 1960s and the politics of decolonization. The big cargo ships had all but disappeared from London’s docks by the time the U.K. joined the EU’s predecessor, the European Economic Community in 1973.

The U.K. that joined the European institution was on its knees, requiring an International Monetary Fund bailout in 1976. Against Labour Party opposition, the Conservative government that brought Britain into the EEC did so on the basis of free trade. It was none other than Margaret Thatcher who pushed to open up the European single market in the 1980s.

In short, the EU was the answer to the collapse of Britain as a great trading empire, not its cause. The argument that the most deeply integrated free trade area in the world is holding back free trade is ridiculous — look no further than Germany’s huge success as an exporting nation.
Your spoiler --"A great global trading nation"-- call that harks back to the Imperial world before 1945.

In fact before 1945 Britain was a trading nation with some and a looting nation with others. The trade with countries such as Australia/New Zealand/Canada etc was scuppered when the UK joined the EEC.
The wealth 'acquired' from other nations had ended when they achieved independence.
All this is history and for the countries involved also--and now they are willing to increase trade with the UK post Brexit.

The vast costs of the wars made joining the EEC good in many ways for the UK. The EU, two major treaties on is very different. (We have been through this many times on this thread!)

An old link---Peter Lilley.
The truth about Britain's trade outside the European Union�
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 3:59 pm
  #20902  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Your spoiler --"A great global trading nation"-- call that harks back to the Imperial world before 1945.

In fact before 1945 Britain was a trading nation with some and a looting nation with others. The trade with countries such as Australia/New Zealand/Canada etc was scuppered when the UK joined the EEC.
The wealth 'acquired' from other nations had ended when they achieved independence.
All this is history and for the countries involved also--and now they are willing to increase trade with the UK post Brexit.

The vast costs of the wars made joining the EEC good in many ways for the UK. The EU, two major treaties on is very different. (We have been through this many times on this thread!)

An old link---Peter Lilley.
The truth about Britain's trade outside the European Union�
Fine if his maths added up.
Yes we pay into the EU and can argue about the nett figure.
But the value of our EU exports runs into billions, 3 million jobs,, plus plus plus.

Like the date on the article lilley is one of yesterday's men.

If you have not been told before and need yet another reminder, the bulk of out trade is akready outside of the EU.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:21 pm
  #20903  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Fine if his maths added up.
Yes we pay into the EU and can argue about the nett figure.
But the value of our EU exports runs into billions, 3 million jobs,, plus plus plus.

Like the date on the article lilley is one of yesterday's men.

If you have not been told before and need yet another reminder, the bulk of out trade is akready outside of the EU.
2016 is nearer to 2017 than 1945 (mentioned in the post I was replying to)or 1975 the previous referendum.

If the bulk of UK trade is already outside of the EU--what is the problem--the UK will increase it! Already non-EU countries invest more and create more jobs than EU countries.
Post Brexit trade with the EU countries is not going to stop!
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:27 pm
  #20904  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2016 is nearer to 2017 than 1945 (mentioned in the post I was replying to)or 1975 the previous referendum.
No shit ...
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:51 pm
  #20905  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2016 is nearer to 2017 than 1945 (mentioned in the post I was replying to)or 1975 the previous referendum.

If the bulk of UK trade is already outside of the EU--what is the problem--the UK will increase it! Already non-EU countries invest more and create more jobs than EU countries.
Post Brexit trade with the EU countries is not going to stop!
You're mixing issues again. Trade will not stop, it will just become significantly more expensive (for Britain), and therefore, will struggle to maintain growth and prosperity. In fact, the economy will simply shrink.

And you need to be reminded that these "global trade agreements" that Britain currently enjoys will literally cease to exist in 2019. Trade agreements tend to be very complex, and generally take 5-10 years to negotiate, unless of course, one party is willing to capitulate on key issues. In this case, who's the one with the least to offer and most to lose?

And what about all those global businesses established in Britain specifically to access the single market? (e.g., Finance, Automakers). Do you think they're going to invest further into a lost cause? Many have already spoken out.

Losing trade and the associated economic benefits is no longer in question. It's a question of how bad it will get.

And if you think politics are chaotic now, if the economy gets bad for a sustained period (especially when Europe and others are in a period of sustained growth), the electorate will become a political A-bomb.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:51 pm
  #20906  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
No shit ...
Then what is that I'm smelling?
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 5:03 pm
  #20907  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Then what is that I'm smelling?
Same day, different shit.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 5:14 pm
  #20908  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2016 is nearer to 2017 than 1945 (mentioned in the post I was replying to)or 1975 the previous referendum.

If the bulk of UK trade is already outside of the EU--what is the problem--the UK will increase it! Already non-EU countries invest more and create more jobs than EU countries.
Post Brexit trade with the EU countries is not going to stop!
There is no problem with the UK increasing its trade, who ever said there was.
It's about the terms of future trading not being advantageous to the UK.

You last sentence ignores the reality that it is because of the EU that so many 100s thousands of jobs have been created and billions invested.by companies who demand free and unfettered access to the EU markets..
How many vehicles to do JLR export tarrifs free to the EU compared to the few thousand in other markets where prohibitive tarrifs are imposed.
JLR l sales in Europe in 2016 just under 139,000 units.
How many UK jobs would those high tarrifs markets sustain.
The investors you keep referring to are not daft they picked the UK for a reason .

Last edited by EMR; Aug 7th 2017 at 6:17 pm.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 5:15 pm
  #20909  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
You're mixing issues again. Trade will not stop, it will just become significantly more expensive (for Britain), and therefore, will struggle to maintain growth and prosperity. In fact, the economy will simply shrink.

And you need to be reminded that these "global trade agreements" that Britain currently enjoys will literally cease to exist in 2019. Trade agreements tend to be very complex, and generally take 5-10 years to negotiate, unless of course, one party is willing to capitulate on key issues. In this case, who's the one with the least to offer and most to lose?

And what about all those global businesses established in Britain specifically to access the single market? (e.g., Finance, Automakers). Do you think they're going to invest further into a lost cause? Many have already spoken out.

Losing trade and the associated economic benefits is no longer in question. It's a question of how bad it will get.

And if you think politics are chaotic now, if the economy gets bad for a sustained period (especially when Europe and others are in a period of sustained growth), the electorate will become a political A-bomb.
You are mixing replies!
My post in reply to your post and regarding non-EU trade was 20901.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 6:08 pm
  #20910  
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
What does he probably do that others don't, for example?.
He does show up to work less than anyone else.

He shows up about 40% of the time for votes, with the only person who shows up less being a man who is paralyzed.
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