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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Former Lancastrian Aug 28th 2016 12:48 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12037058)
So are you happy to go along with whatever the politicians now come up with?

Didn't politicians already do that before Brexit or no Brexit? Before Brexit when was the last time the public had a say in anything that Politicians decide?
Did they have a say on sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan?
Did they have a say in how many non EU migrants they would accept every year?
Did they have a say in the last time the VAT was raised?
Did they have a say on the Good Friday Peace Accord that essentially gave many IRA prisoners a get out of jail free card?

Yes what will happen if and when article 50 is ever triggered nobody really knows but don't feel for one moment that any Government always makes decisions that are palatable to the general public.

mfesharne Aug 28th 2016 1:09 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The majority voted for Brexit & that's what'll happen & my guess is it'll happen without further Parliamentary debate but as for the terms of Brexit, they'll be hammered out by the Brexit negotiation team not by me, anyone else here or the electorate.

IMO, they've now had several weeks to sort out a wish list & nothing more can be done until A50 is triggered so let's get it done & get out of the EUSSR asap.

DaveLovesDee Aug 28th 2016 1:29 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12037099)
The majority voted for Brexit & that's what'll happen & my guess is it'll happen without further Parliamentary debate but as for the terms of Brexit, they'll be hammered out by the Brexit negotiation team not by me, anyone else here or the electorate.

IMO, they've now had several weeks to sort out a wish list & nothing more can be done until A50 is triggered so let's get it done & get out of the EUSSR asap.

It's clear to me that you've never been involved in negotiating anything important. At least two points of reference have to be understood BEFORE negotiations; your wish list, and what the absolute minimum you'll settle for. The negotiations start with your position close to the former, and meet somewhere in the middle.

DaveLovesDee Aug 28th 2016 1:43 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Germany warns UK ‘you can’t keep the nice things’ after Brexit


"If we organise Brexit in the wrong way, then we'll be in deep trouble so now we need to make sure that we don't allow Britain to keep the nice things, so to speak, related to Europe while taking no responsibility," he added.

The German Deputy Foreign Minister said negotiations would be "very difficult" and that Britain would not be able to have both full access to the single market and limits on the freedom of movement of workers.

mfesharne Aug 28th 2016 1:48 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12037109)
It's clear to me that you've never been involved in negotiating anything important. At least two points of reference have to be understood BEFORE negotiations; your wish list, and what the absolute minimum you'll settle for. The negotiations start with your position close to the former, and meet somewhere in the middle.

No shit...... really?

I wish I'd known that when I was running my own company that operated in 7 different countries for 33 years.

A brilliant piece of deduction Sherlock!

:sarcasm:

DaveLovesDee Aug 28th 2016 1:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12037117)
No shit...... really?

I wish I'd known that when I was running my own company that operated in 7 different countries for 33 years.

A brilliant piece of deduction Sherlock!

:sarcasm:

Then why believe you can wait until after A50 is triggered to make your starting position?

Former Lancastrian Aug 28th 2016 2:08 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I like being a PITA on this thread as nobody really wants to answer any questions I put to them or observations on the Brexit vote :lol:

1. Why did you have a referendum? I don't recall there being riots in the streets or general unrest about remaining in the EU or wanting out?

2. Who called the referendum?

3. Its pretty obvious that Cameron and company thought they would win so why would they need a back up plan.

4. Perhaps the Brexit crowd just wanted the result and if they won then they could sit down and start negotiations to leave.

5. Will article 50 actually get done?

6. Who says the Govt have to legally trigger article 50 and actually leave the EU and if they didn't what would happen? Would their be civil unrest, riots etc etc.
The last time I recall the Govt actually listening to the populace was the Poll Tax saga.

mfesharne Aug 28th 2016 2:19 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12037118)
Then why believe you can wait until after A50 is triggered to make your starting position?

I've never suggested that.

The starting position is pretty damn obvious in the the majority of the electorate have voted to leave therefore that's what will happen.

I've said on a number of occasions they've now had several weeks to put together a wish list so the next step is to trigger A50 and only after that can the first word of the negotiations be spoken.....so let's pull the A50 trigger and get going

jimenato Aug 28th 2016 2:19 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12037124)
I like being a PITA on this thread as nobody really wants to answer any questions I put to them or observations on the Brexit vote :lol:


1. Why did you have a referendum? I don't recall there being riots in the streets or general unrest about remaining in the EU or wanting out?
Cameron pandering to his right wing who were running scared of UKIP


2. Who called the referendum?
Not quite sure what you mean but probably Cameron


3. Its pretty obvious that Cameron and company thought they would win so why would they need a back up plan.
Yes


4. Perhaps the Brexit crowd just wanted the result and if they won then they could sit down and start negotiations to leave.
That's what's happened


5. Will article 50 actually get done?
Probably


6. Who says the Govt have to legally trigger article 50 and actually leave the EU and if they didn't what would happen? Would their be civil unrest, riots etc etc.
The last time I recall the Govt actually listening to the populace was the Poll Tax saga.
They don't have to trigger it but probably will.

TBH if they didn't trigger it, most Brexiteers, having lost interest, probably wouldn't notice.

Another alternative is simply to lie and say we have triggered it. Brexiteers tend to believe lies.

mfesharne Aug 28th 2016 2:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Last point first: Brexiteers obviously don't believe lies because they ignored the Project Fear BS propaganda & lies of WWIII, disaster budgets & all that other crap & voted to leave.

More generally: If you go back to the election promises of the last but one election both Liebour & Cons (& I think also Libs) promised a Brexit referendum but it was kicked into the long grass & never happened.

Then at this last election, the Cons saw the gains (in the polls) that UKIP were making & promised a Brexit referendum in the hope of keeping the votes that were in danger of going to UKIP....... & it worked. They got a clear majority but having twice offered the referendum, they decided to have one.

Project Fear was designed to scare the bejaysus out of everyone so they'd vote remain.

They obviously over egged the pudding and/or underestimated the electorate because the end result was a significant majority voted out.

Former Lancastrian Aug 28th 2016 2:45 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
So in other words there are just over 17 MILLION thick uneducated voters in the UK who voted for Brexit. They were all rabid UKIP supporters who actually didn't get that many votes in the last general election but had a promise made to them that there would be a referendum to leave or remain in the EU.

None of these voters understood what they were voting for in the referendum but the UKIP did promise Immigration controls if they were elected. I tend to think the UKIP were talking about controlling Immigration from citizens of non EU countries like Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Sudan and Iraq and some others. They didn't mean Germans, Spanish, French and those citizens of EU countries under the freedom of movement of such people under the EU.
Of course none of these 17 million voters understood this or had it explained to them.
Perhaps if Cameron and his crew instead of being scared of losing the general election and not promising a referendum then perhaps we wouldn't have this thread.

BTW most Canadians, Yankees or any South American countries or Asian countries DGAF about the result nor really cares what happens next. As much as Canada wants the CETA deal done we don't care if the UK is part of CETA as Im sure we would still want trade with the UK and have reciprocal agreements for workers and Immigration.

Bipat Aug 28th 2016 2:45 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12037130)
TBH if they didn't trigger it, most Brexiteers, having lost interest, probably wouldn't notice.

Another alternative is simply to lie and say we have triggered it. Brexiteers tend to believe lies.

How can you possibly know what "most Brexiters" notice or don't notice?
Or what "Brexiters tend to believe" or don't believe.

Do you really think that all are going to give you a 'blow by blow" account of their intentions re. negotiations with EU or elsewhere at this stage??

This link id dated July 8th, even before the new PM was installed.

Business minister Sajid Javid opens preliminary trade talks with India | Politics | The Guardian

Bipat Aug 28th 2016 2:55 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12037146)
So in other words there are just over 17 MILLION thick uneducated voters in the UK who voted for Brexit. They were all rabid UKIP supporters who actually didn't get that many votes in the last general election but had a promise made to them that there would be a referendum to leave or remain in the EU.

None of these voters understood what they were voting for in the referendum but the UKIP did promise Immigration controls if they were elected. I tend to think the UKIP were talking about controlling Immigration from citizens of non EU countries like Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Sudan and Iraq and some others. They didn't mean Germans, Spanish, French and those citizens of EU countries under the freedom of movement of such people under the EU.
Of course none of these 17 million voters understood this or had it explained to them.
Perhaps if Cameron and his crew instead of being scared of losing the general election and not promising a referendum then perhaps we wouldn't have this thread.

BTW most Canadians, Yankees or any South American countries or Asian countries DGAF about the result nor really cares what happens next. As much as Canada wants the CETA deal done we don't care if the UK is part of CETA as Im sure we would still want trade with the UK and have reciprocal agreements for workers and Immigration.

I think some do care. It is a constant item in the business news here, with views on both sides of the discussion.

Post Brexit, India-UK trade pact likely to get a fillip | The Indian Express

mfesharne Aug 28th 2016 3:14 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12037146)
So in other words there are just over 17 MILLION thick uneducated voters in the UK who voted for Brexit. They were all rabid UKIP supporters who actually didn't get that many votes in the last general election but had a promise made to them that there would be a referendum to leave or remain in the EU.

None of these voters understood what they were voting for in the referendum but the UKIP did promise Immigration controls if they were elected. I tend to think the UKIP were talking about controlling Immigration from citizens of non EU countries like Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Sudan and Iraq and some others. They didn't mean Germans, Spanish, French and those citizens of EU countries under the freedom of movement of such people under the EU.
Of course none of these 17 million voters understood this or had it explained to them.
Perhaps if Cameron and his crew instead of being scared of losing the general election and not promising a referendum then perhaps we wouldn't have this thread.

BTW most Canadians, Yankees or any South American countries or Asian countries DGAF about the result nor really cares what happens next. As much as Canada wants the CETA deal done we don't care if the UK is part of CETA as Im sure we would still want trade with the UK and have reciprocal agreements for workers and Immigration.

Para 1: "Thick uneducated voters"? Well I don't know about you but I know quite a lot of people who voted for Brexit & the vast majority are professionals & high income earners so hardly all "thick & uneducated" & such an accusation is utterly ridiculous but even if it were not, every voter is entitled to vote irrespective of their IQ, education level or for that matter skin colour or religious belief etc etc.

Para 2: The clue is in the title of the party which is United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) and the main aim is of the party is to remove the UK from the EU. There are plenty of other policies including on immigration & free movement & whilst I'm not an expert on the party I think you'll probably find their manifesto on their website.

Para 3: Sorry. I genuinely don't understand what that that has to do with the subject in hand?

Former Lancastrian Aug 28th 2016 3:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12037152)
I think some do care. It is a constant item in the business news here, with views on both sides of the discussion.

Post Brexit, India-UK trade pact likely to get a fillip | The Indian Express

I think most countries across the world want trade with others but do they have to be part of a Union. Look at the opposition to the TTP and CETA and why is it because countries want trade but also want to protect their own interests?

From the article
India’s chances of entering into a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the United Kingdom will now brighten post Britain’s plan to exit from the European Union. Among the EU countries, UK is India’s third largest trading partner. Brexit is beneficial for India in the sense that the UK will now be looking to tie up trade agreements with other countries like India, a commerce ministry official said on Friday asking not to be named.

So while the UK remains part of the EU India seems to having difficulty in negotiating a trade deal because they are part of the EU.

FTA with the UK is expected to be beneficial to India especially in the backdrop of recent trade formations among countries which exclude India, such as, the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) between the US and the EU, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact among 12 countries including the US, Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, Singapore, Canada, Mexico, Brunei, Australia, New Zealand, Chile and Peru.

So yes India does care but the same sentiments have not been seen coming from other non EU countries. Do you honestly believe that North America want something similar to the EU with South American countries? Freedom of movement would be one way if it was and the vast majority of movement would be north to the USA and Canada. Even the FTA with Mexico has its problems with manufacturing moving South and people wanting to come north. The FTA has limited movement of people to each others countries.
Trade is important but so is opening up the borders of your country to all and sundry.


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