Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Jul 27th 2017, 9:47 am
  #20431  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Pick the bones out of this if you can?
Immigration minister goes on morning TV to say that free movement will end in 2019 despite his fellow cabinet members having said that it may have to continue during any transition period.
He also had no idea how the government's immigration targets will be met having accepted that the needs of the UK economy come first.
At the same time Amber Rudd has announced that report into the costs and benefits of EU migration has been commissioned.
Boris when asked to comment said that He was not aware of any new immigration report being commissioned .

Gove puts Fox in his place over US food imports.

I suppose I will be accused of running down the UK and being unpatriotic for not supporting the " ship of fools " our government has become.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:28 pm
  #20432  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
I guess this typical Brexiteer is as confused about the issues as the rest of them...

So... could some of the leavers on here clear this up - should we stay in or leave the single market?
More remainer "facts" eh?

Mullins a Brexiter - you guys are funny.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:29 pm
  #20433  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by iano View Post
Well aware of that, and why I said the Brexit 'effect'.

As well as the shortage of NHS staff, appears there's plenty of vacancies on the farms too...

"For 70 years, Tim Chambers' family has harvested fruit in south-east England, but after Britain's vote last year to leave the European Union he expanded into Poland and is
ready to sell some of his land if a shortage of migrant workers worsens."
If a company is having difficulty attracting appropriate staff they normally have to pay more. People earning more is now a bad thing for remainers?
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:31 pm
  #20434  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Pick the bones out of this if you can?
Immigration minister goes on morning TV to say that free movement will end in 2019 despite his fellow cabinet members having said that it may have to continue during any transition period.
He also had no idea how the government's immigration targets will be met having accepted that the needs of the UK economy come first.
At the same time Amber Rudd has announced that report into the costs and benefits of EU migration has been commissioned.
Boris when asked to comment said that He was not aware of any new immigration report being commissioned .

Gove puts Fox in his place over US food imports.

I suppose I will be accused of running down the UK and being unpatriotic for not supporting the " ship of fools " our government has become.
Lets hope they opt for a net-zero immigration target for several years.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:36 pm
  #20435  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Lets hope they opt for a net-zero immigration target for several years.
Nothing you listen to the needs required by the UK economy
The health of UK economy is the only thing that matters for those tens millions who need jobs ,wages and salaries to live..
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:42 pm
  #20436  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
If a company is having difficulty attracting appropriate staff they normally have to pay more. People earning more is now a bad thing for remainers?
Where did you dream that one up.

The current problem in the UK for the tens millions of ordinary people is that their wages are not keeping up with the inflation driven by the fall in sterling as a result of the vote.
Not just my opinion but also that of the Chancellor.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:43 pm
  #20437  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Nothing you listen to the needs required by the UK economy
The health of UK economy is the only thing that matters for those tens millions who need jobs ,wages and salaries to live..
High net immigration ramps up housing costs and suppresses wages - for many people's "economy" they would be far better off with net-zero for a while.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 12:48 pm
  #20438  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
High net immigration ramps up housing costs and suppresses wages - for many people's "economy" they would be far better off with net-zero for a while.
Fortunately even this government disagrees with you, putting the economy first and the majority off those in business in the UK experiencing a Labour and skills shortage.
In addition to the NHS and care sectors.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:25 pm
  #20439  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,364
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Lets hope they opt for a net-zero immigration target for several years.
That's interesting. If that's your aspiration, why did you vote remain?
jimenato is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:28 pm
  #20440  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,482
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes, but I would imagine "event, tournament, or series of events defined by UK Border Agency" covers major events such as Wimbledon etc. It includes technical/personal staff/officials etc.
I suppose prize money is not 'earned', they are not 'employed'.

(Just noticed the solicitor in the link charges 'from' £1000 for their services, I wonder how many clients they get?)
The solicitor's link is a little better. Support staff would apply for a Tier 5 (creative and sports) visa, the talent would apply for a Tier 2 (Sportsperson's) visa. But EU nationals don't currently have to worry about these things.

For a large group of applications, a solicitor may be expensive, but worth it because you don't want any errors in the application.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
More remainer "facts" eh?

Mullins a Brexiter - you guys are funny.
Ooooh, you found something a Remainer posted that was wrong. Well done!

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
If a company is having difficulty attracting appropriate staff they normally have to pay more. People earning more is now a bad thing for remainers?
You've taking one premise and turned it into an unfounded assumption.

If the selling price for your products are based on paying a certain pay rate for your employees, and you raise the pay rate to get new employees, you're probably going to have to raise your prices to pay the current staff the same rate too. Otherwise your current staff are going to be annoyed that the new staff get more than they do.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
High net immigration ramps up housing costs and suppresses wages - for many people's "economy" they would be far better off with net-zero for a while.
'Austerity' ramps up costs and suppresses wages. The government has kept public-sector pay at around 1% for the last 7+ years, which has led to private-sector employers doing the same while inflation raises prices at double/triple that.

My pay has barely increased in 5 years, but my bills have increased an average of 2-3% a year. Just because companies aren't paying their employees more, doesn't mean they are wanting more from us payers.



Back to Charlie Mullins for a second. I don't think he understands it's the UK government who set the fees for employment tribunals.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 1:42 pm
  #20441  
EU hoo
 
iano's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: émigré of nowhere
Posts: 1,954
iano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
If a company is having difficulty attracting appropriate staff they normally have to pay more. People earning more is now a bad thing for remainers?
An astounding comment from a self-professed entrepreneur and businessman.

Realistically, and with your zero net immigration masterplan in mind, how much more pay would it take to attract hundreds if not thousands of Kentishmen to work the land from August until the Spring ? Margins are squeezed already by the major supermarkets, increasing labour costs on smaller farms would mean them going under, or last resort selling off their land.

Your ridiculous last sentence is like me claiming small family companies going under is now a good thing for Brexiteers. <<shakes head>>
iano is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 2:04 pm
  #20442  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
That's interesting. If that's your aspiration, why did you vote remain?
I voted remain for selfish reasons - I am middle-aged and have less time to recover from any short-term economic disruption, I am a landlord and benefit from high net immigration pushing up market rents, I am a landlord and I benefit from foreign tradespeople pushing down rates for work, I own a holiday home in the EU and benefit from being able to live and work from there when I like.

That doesn't mean I can't see the negatives for others in the UK (predominantly the young and poor), nor does it mean that a lot of the extreme-remainer wailing isn't idiotic and distasteful to watch.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 2:09 pm
  #20443  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The solicitor's link is a little better. Support staff would apply for a Tier 5 (creative and sports) visa, the talent would apply for a Tier 2 (Sportsperson's) visa. But EU nationals don't currently have to worry about these things.

For a large group of applications, a solicitor may be expensive, but worth it because you don't want any errors in the application.



Ooooh, you found something a Remainer posted that was wrong. Well done!



You've taking one premise and turned it into an unfounded assumption.

If the selling price for your products are based on paying a certain pay rate for your employees, and you raise the pay rate to get new employees, you're probably going to have to raise your prices to pay the current staff the same rate too. Otherwise your current staff are going to be annoyed that the new staff get more than they do.



'Austerity' ramps up costs and suppresses wages. The government has kept public-sector pay at around 1% for the last 7+ years, which has led to private-sector employers doing the same while inflation raises prices at double/triple that.

My pay has barely increased in 5 years, but my bills have increased an average of 2-3% a year. Just because companies aren't paying their employees more, doesn't mean they are wanting more from us payers.



Back to Charlie Mullins for a second. I don't think he understands it's the UK government who set the fees for employment tribunals.
We haven't experienced austerity, we are still spending more than we bring-in.

Austerity does not ramp up costs, but it does suppress public sector wages and good job too.

The public sector were overpaid and even after several years of low raises they are still better paid than their private sector kin. The inflationary number often overlooks the grade increases of 3-4% given to many (i.e. nurses).

Basic supply and demand economics tells us that increasing the supply of labour suppresses wages, it also tells us that increasing the demand fro accommodation increases the price of accommodation (especially in a relatively inelastic supply like housing).
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 2:18 pm
  #20444  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,880
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by iano View Post
An astounding comment from a self-professed entrepreneur and businessman.

Realistically, and with your zero net immigration masterplan in mind, how much more pay would it take to attract hundreds if not thousands of Kentishmen to work the land from August until the Spring ? Margins are squeezed already by the major supermarkets, increasing labour costs on smaller farms would mean them going under, or last resort selling off their land.

Your ridiculous last sentence is like me claiming small family companies going under is now a good thing for Brexiteers. <<shakes head>>
Why is it astounding - the suppression of wages due to high net immigration (and corresponding ramping of rents) has meant a huge increase in in-work benefits that are being paid.

We are importing a Romanian to pick fruit at rates that mean they qualify for in-work benefits, which guarantees they are a net drain to the UK coffers - why would we do that?

If UK farms, distribution centres, car cleaning companies, hotels etc cannot make their business work without paying such low wages the rest of society has to make up the difference, then their business model is a negative to the UK as a whole.

If the increase in costs impacts all farmers then they will have to pass their costs onto the supermarkets etc and each of us will have to pay a couple of pennies more for our apples - i.e. the true cost of growing and selling them, rather than the subsidised cost.

If certain businesses are uneconomic without this subsidy then tough.

I don't want a small business to go bust, but I also don't think we should be subsidising them by allowing them to suppress wages via high net immigration (and lets be honest, farmers under the CAP are the worst of the benefit scroungers, they get money from the State and subsidised labour).
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2017, 2:56 pm
  #20445  
EU hoo
 
iano's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: émigré of nowhere
Posts: 1,954
iano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Why is it astounding
Your suggestion ignores the potential to damage small businesses through higher labour costs, paying enough to attract sufficient Englishmen to work the land throughout the winter months, especially in a zero net immigration environment, which you didn't address. Fruit/vegetable production is a labour intensive business as you know.

UK food suppliers cannot 'pass on their costs to the supermarkets', it just doesn't work that way. UK food producers become uncompetitive and the supermarkets will just source from the EU or beyond where labour costs would be that much cheaper, offsetting any future tariffs or duties.

Your average Romanian fruit picker does not claim in work benefits, DWP and ONS statistics prove as much, around 2 and a half times less likely to claim than your average Brit. Who's the drain on the national coffers ?

You appear to be sanguine about the loss of a significant sector of the British economy, 'tough' you say, and it will be.
iano is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.