Post EU Referendum
Reasonable Bitch










Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 18,139












The whole federal phobia is rather laughable. And hypocritical too.
For all practical purposes, the UK is a federal state, with Westminster the "Washington DC" of the UK.
Nope, can't accept the notion of any kind of "central governance". Except in our case, of course.
For all practical purposes, the UK is a federal state, with Westminster the "Washington DC" of the UK.
Nope, can't accept the notion of any kind of "central governance". Except in our case, of course.


I said:
Business leaders, bankers, politicians, unions, just about every Geldof-like luvvy you could point a stick at - it was clear the the political, cultural and economic elite were fully behind remain.
Brexiters? Well, I hear it every day on sites like this, they are the backward uneducated, poor types who will suffer so greatly outside of the EU.
So yes, it is pretty clear that it was ordinary proles against the elites.
Brexiters? Well, I hear it every day on sites like this, they are the backward uneducated, poor types who will suffer so greatly outside of the EU.
So yes, it is pretty clear that it was ordinary proles against the elites.

Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,829












Which Labour manifesto years before 2003 were you thinking of?

Banned










Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724












Who misled those in the less affluent areas of the country into believing that it was the EU who is responsible or that their lot in life will improve after brexit..
The reason why, business, bankers etc are on the side of remain is like me hey believe that remaining was the best for the UK , it's prosperity , it people's, security etc.
Brexiters could not have won an argument based on the economy.
It is they who created the idea that a vote to leave was a vote against the so called elite , against the establishment , a vote for a better future for those you call polls..
One of the biggest con tricks in our history.

Banned










Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724












You now confirm that there was a radical change from federalism to community.
It was the protests of the UK the Labour government and others that downgraded the wording.


Business leaders, bankers, politicians, unions, just about every Geldof-like luvvy you could point a stick at - it was clear the the political, cultural and economic elite were fully behind remain.
Brexiters? Well, I hear it every day on sites like this, they are the backward uneducated, poor types who will suffer so greatly outside of the EU.
So yes, it is pretty clear that it was ordinary proles against the elites.
Brexiters? Well, I hear it every day on sites like this, they are the backward uneducated, poor types who will suffer so greatly outside of the EU.
So yes, it is pretty clear that it was ordinary proles against the elites.
And fie.

Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,829












You have been suggesting in numerous posts that Labour renaged on a referendum promise to put the EU constitution to the british people.
You now confirm that there was a radical change from federalism to community.
It was the protests of the UK the Labour government and others that downgraded the wording.
You now confirm that there was a radical change from federalism to community.
It was the protests of the UK the Labour government and others that downgraded the wording.
I did not confirm any actual changes from federalism to community.
I said the WORDING of the draft Constitutional Treaty had been changed by Giscard d'Estaing, is that what you mean by "downgraded"? It was just words to pacify the British and other governments.

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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724












EMR you do not read posts. I have said two or three times that the promise in the 2005 manifesto did not happen. How is that as you said above, years before 2003?
I did not confirm any actual changes from federalism to community.
I said the WORDING of the draft Constitutional Treaty had been changed by Giscard d'Estaing, is that what you mean by "downgraded"? It was just words to pacify the British and other governments.
I did not confirm any actual changes from federalism to community.
I said the WORDING of the draft Constitutional Treaty had been changed by Giscard d'Estaing, is that what you mean by "downgraded"? It was just words to pacify the British and other governments.


Can I (timidly) ask what he f*** you all hang about on this benighted thread for?
There are only a handful of posters who "contribute" to the "discussion" and of that handful, most are really rather stupid.
Are you all addicted to utterly pointless bickering about something over which you have no informed opinion and certainly no control?
Those of you who think they know how this farce will evolve are all wrong.
Except me.
There are only a handful of posters who "contribute" to the "discussion" and of that handful, most are really rather stupid.
Are you all addicted to utterly pointless bickering about something over which you have no informed opinion and certainly no control?
Those of you who think they know how this farce will evolve are all wrong.
Except me.

So long...










Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,449












Well the final draft and the subsequent Lisbon Treaty uses the word "community" doesn't it!! How is that misrepresentation?
(I wasn't going to give links to both assume, you have read them!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...European_Union
refs14/15/16
Giscard's 'federal' ruse to protect Blair - Telegraph
(I wasn't going to give links to both assume, you have read them!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...European_Union
refs14/15/16
Giscard's 'federal' ruse to protect Blair - Telegraph

Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,829












'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent
The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?
I give up!!

Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,829












Can I (timidly) ask what he f*** you all hang about on this benighted thread for?
There are only a handful of posters who "contribute" to the "discussion" and of that handful, most are really rather stupid.
Are you all addicted to utterly pointless bickering about something over which you have no informed opinion and certainly no control?
Those of you who think they know how this farce will evolve are all wrong.
Except me.
There are only a handful of posters who "contribute" to the "discussion" and of that handful, most are really rather stupid.
Are you all addicted to utterly pointless bickering about something over which you have no informed opinion and certainly no control?
Those of you who think they know how this farce will evolve are all wrong.
Except me.
I resolve not to look at the Forum and certainly not to respond to certain posters----but I do!
(However I assume the posters you refer to as "stupid" are the ones you disagree with.


So long...










Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,449












What is your problem you and EMR? I pointed out the Giscard d'Estaing changed the text of his draft Constitutional Treaty. He changed the word 'federation' to 'community'! No reports can "prove" that unless copies of the original and changed text are published at the same time.
'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent
The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?
I give up!!
'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent
The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?
I give up!!

Banned










Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724












What is your problem you and EMR? I pointed out the Giscard d'Estaing changed the text of his draft Constitutional Treaty. He changed the word 'federation' to 'community'! No reports can "prove" that unless copies of the original and changed text are published at the same time.
'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent
The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?
I give up!!
'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent
The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?
I give up!!
As there was NO suggestion of federalism ..

Reasonable Bitch










Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 18,139












Meanwhile...
As ‘Brexit’ Clock Ticks, U.K. Seems Adrift | New York Times
LONDON — One was accused of trying to sabotage Britain’s exit from the European Union and of treating colleagues like “pirates who have taken him prisoner.” Two others were described as “dangerous and deranged.” As for the man leading London’s talks on “Brexit,” he has been called “lazy as a toad” and “vain as Narcissus,” and his colleagues “government morons.”
Such descriptions of Britain’s leaders are perhaps not all that surprising, given the country’s often colorful political wars. Except they were issued not by opponents of the governing Conservative Party, whose lawmakers are negotiating the country’s departure from the 28-nation bloc, but by people in or close to it.
As discussions got serious this week in Brussels — amid open feuding, cabinet splits and confusion over policy objectives back in London — Britain’s handling of its most important negotiations since World War II was starting to look shambolic. Nearly four months after Prime Minister Theresa May invoked Article 50, starting the clock on a two-year window to negotiate Britain’s departure, little or nothing of substance has been accomplished.
With the British currency languishing, the standard of living progressively squeezed and investors starting to take fright, there is markedly less bravado in London about a new age of opportunities for a “global Britain.” Amid a growing sense of drift, gone is the talk of a “red, white and blue Brexit” — a reference to the colors of the national flag.
Read More
As ‘Brexit’ Clock Ticks, U.K. Seems Adrift | New York Times
LONDON — One was accused of trying to sabotage Britain’s exit from the European Union and of treating colleagues like “pirates who have taken him prisoner.” Two others were described as “dangerous and deranged.” As for the man leading London’s talks on “Brexit,” he has been called “lazy as a toad” and “vain as Narcissus,” and his colleagues “government morons.”
Such descriptions of Britain’s leaders are perhaps not all that surprising, given the country’s often colorful political wars. Except they were issued not by opponents of the governing Conservative Party, whose lawmakers are negotiating the country’s departure from the 28-nation bloc, but by people in or close to it.
As discussions got serious this week in Brussels — amid open feuding, cabinet splits and confusion over policy objectives back in London — Britain’s handling of its most important negotiations since World War II was starting to look shambolic. Nearly four months after Prime Minister Theresa May invoked Article 50, starting the clock on a two-year window to negotiate Britain’s departure, little or nothing of substance has been accomplished.
With the British currency languishing, the standard of living progressively squeezed and investors starting to take fright, there is markedly less bravado in London about a new age of opportunities for a “global Britain.” Amid a growing sense of drift, gone is the talk of a “red, white and blue Brexit” — a reference to the colors of the national flag.
Read More
