amideislas

The whole federal phobia is rather laughable. And hypocritical too.

For all practical purposes, the UK is a federal state, with Westminster the "Washington DC" of the UK.

Nope, can't accept the notion of any kind of "central governance". Except in our case, of course.

Cape Blue

Out of interest, where do you get that from what I said?

I said:
i.e the business leaders, bankers and politicians were all on the same side and for remain, yet you seem to have read that is was business leaders on the opposite side to the politicians.

Bipat

Yes I know the difference between federalism and community, I was just pointing out the change of words during the drafting of the Constitutional Treaty/Lisbon Treaty.

Which Labour manifesto years before 2003 were you thinking of?

EMR

Who produced the Brexit propaganda, the lies, opportunist politicians who contributed very little to the economy, to job creation, to the wealth of the country.
Who misled those in the less affluent areas of the country into believing that it was the EU who is responsible or that their lot in life will improve after brexit..

The reason why, business, bankers etc are on the side of remain is like me hey believe that remaining was the best for the UK , it's prosperity , it people's, security etc.

Brexiters could not have won an argument based on the economy.
It is they who created the idea that a vote to leave was a vote against the so called elite , against the establishment , a vote for a better future for those you call polls..

One of the biggest con tricks in our history.

EMR

You have been suggesting in numerous posts that Labour renaged on a referendum promise to put the EU constitution to the british people.
You now confirm that there was a radical change from federalism to community.
It was the protests of the UK the Labour government and others that downgraded the wording.

Red Eric

Pish.

And fie.

Bipat

EMR you do not read posts. I have said two or three times that the promise in the 2005 manifesto did not happen. How is that as you said above, years before 2003?

I did not confirm any actual changes from federalism to community.
I said the WORDING of the draft Constitutional Treaty had been changed by Giscard d'Estaing, is that what you mean by "downgraded"? It was just words to pacify the British and other governments.

EMR

You clearly do not understand the difference between federal and community if you think that it was just words to pacify the British and others.

Novocastrian

Can I (timidly) ask what he f*** you all hang about on this benighted thread for?

There are only a handful of posters who "contribute" to the "discussion" and of that handful, most are really rather stupid.

Are you all addicted to utterly pointless bickering about something over which you have no informed opinion and certainly no control?

Those of you who think they know how this farce will evolve are all wrong.

Except me.

DaveLovesDee

My point, which you obviously either missed or ignored, was that your post I responded to didn't prove what you said it would. Again!

Bipat

What is your problem you and EMR? I pointed out the Giscard d'Estaing changed the text of his draft Constitutional Treaty. He changed the word 'federation' to 'community'! No reports can "prove" that unless copies of the original and changed text are published at the same time.

'Federal' cut from EU blueprint after Blair protests | The Independent

The link I put subsequent to your "didn't prove post" quoted Giscard d'Estaing himself. Are you saying all the reports are incorrect?

I give up!!

Bipat

I respond to posts I disagree with because I have absolutely no self discipline.
I resolve not to look at the Forum and certainly not to respond to certain posters----but I do!
(However I assume the posters you refer to as "stupid" are the ones you disagree with.)

DaveLovesDee

Your link in the subsequent post did back-up the assertion in was querying in a previous post.

EMR

Finally then you accept that Labour did not deny the UK populace a referendum because there was nothing for them to put to the country.

As there was NO suggestion of federalism ..

amideislas

Meanwhile...

As ‘Brexit’ Clock Ticks, U.K. Seems Adrift | New York Times

LONDON — One was accused of trying to sabotage Britain’s exit from the European Union and of treating colleagues like “pirates who have taken him prisoner.” Two others were described as “dangerous and deranged.” As for the man leading London’s talks on “Brexit,” he has been called “lazy as a toad” and “vain as Narcissus,” and his colleagues “government morons.”

Such descriptions of Britain’s leaders are perhaps not all that surprising, given the country’s often colorful political wars. Except they were issued not by opponents of the governing Conservative Party, whose lawmakers are negotiating the country’s departure from the 28-nation bloc, but by people in or close to it.

As discussions got serious this week in Brussels — amid open feuding, cabinet splits and confusion over policy objectives back in London — Britain’s handling of its most important negotiations since World War II was starting to look shambolic. Nearly four months after Prime Minister Theresa May invoked Article 50, starting the clock on a two-year window to negotiate Britain’s departure, little or nothing of substance has been accomplished.

With the British currency languishing, the standard of living progressively squeezed and investors starting to take fright, there is markedly less bravado in London about a new age of opportunities for a “global Britain.” Amid a growing sense of drift, gone is the talk of a “red, white and blue Brexit” — a reference to the colors of the national flag.

Read More