Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:01 pm
  #20311  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 191
Golden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
What % of EU migrants have moved to the UK who do not work, who do not contribute or pay tax.
If you think that it is a major problem then please let us know the numbers .
So, if all the EU migrants, according to you, have moved to the UK to work then, after Brexit, they will not be inconvenienced by only being allowed to come in if they have a job to go to or arrive for a holiday or plan to retire and have sufficient funds to support themselves?

Of course, the same will apply to people from other parts of the world coming to the UK and people from the UK going to the EU.
Golden Years is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:12 pm
  #20312  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 191
Golden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
People and there is indeed a huge difference so I'm glad I have been able to put that to rest. It's people.

So basically those who are saying that we voted in the referendum to join the EEC that we were voting only for a trade agreement and not freedom of movement of people are simply wrong.
Are you sure? The Treaty Rome refers to "labour".
When was it officially changed?
Golden Years is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:19 pm
  #20313  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,386
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
Are you sure? The Treaty Rome refers to "labour".
When was it officially changed?
Treaty of Rome

ARTICLE 3

(c) the abolition, as between Member States, of obstacles to freedom of movement for persons, services and capital;
OK, 'persons' rather than people.
jimenato is online now  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:20 pm
  #20314  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

We have told ad nasesum in 100s of posts that it us EU membership that is holding back British companies when they try to export.
Here is even more evidence that thus claim is just pure hogwash.
Liam Fox will be in the US for trade discussions.
Maybe he should ask why in the food sector France has over7000 suppliers registered with the US food and drug,Italy over 6000, the UK has just over 1000 a number that has declined by 800. ( Sunday Times ).
Companies not registered face having their products impounded at US customs.

Where is the evidence that the EU has affected UK companies trading with the US.

The US is not going to increase competition from imports by relaxing its rules just for British companies who even today are unable to compete with the French , Italians Tec.

Fox has again criticised Hammond for stating that given the UKs reliance on service industries, free trade agreements won,t make any particular difference.

Last edited by EMR; Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:29 pm.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:26 pm
  #20315  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 191
Golden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond reputeGolden Years has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Treaty of Rome



OK, 'persons' rather than people.
Nope, page 21, Title lll says "workers".
Golden Years is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:39 pm
  #20316  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,616
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
So which particular EU law/s do you feel has/have had a negative effect on the UK?

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
An example;- the decision to cancel the rail upgrade serving Cardiff. Would that have occurred if access to the EU’s infrastructure fund had been maintained?
The electrification from London to Cardiff is still going ahead, but the section from Cardiff to Swansea has been cancelled. And we still have access to EU infrastructure funds until we leave.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
My use of quotes meant that there will still be freedom of movement between the countries of the EU as there always has been, but that there will be rules regarding work/permament settlement etc. as there are with all other countries.
There was always the ability for the UK to have rules on those using free movement regarding work and/or Permanent Residence. That the UK failed to implement many of the available rules until the last few years is solely down to successive UK governments, rather than the fault of the EU.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
That is the point!! The Uk entered and the public voted to join the EEC a trade relationship.
The subsequent Treaties have moved it nearer to a federal system (the word "Federal" was changed to "Community" after protests by the UK. however just a word change!)
Do you have a link for that?

As has been pointed out the EU has free trade relationships with non-EU countries the agreements to not include complete free movement of people to work and settle.
Free movement is reserved solely for EU and EEA member states. Free trade agreements with non-EU countries won't include free movement rights. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring it up again.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:44 pm
  #20317  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
Nope, page 21, Title lll says "workers".
I can think of few brexiters who should read it given their claims that there are aspects of EU membership they claim we did not sign up to.
The treaty of Rome specifically mentions the creation of a court .
Article 4.
This was back in 1957.
It's What we agreed to and voted for in a referendum back in the 70s.
The ECJ is not an EU creation but an EEC or " common market " one.
One by majority vote we agreed to.

Last edited by EMR; Jul 23rd 2017 at 1:48 pm.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 1:46 pm
  #20318  
EU hoo
 
iano's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: émigré of nowhere
Posts: 1,954
iano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond reputeiano has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
When did it do that?
1993 or thereabouts.
iano is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 2:08 pm
  #20319  
So long...
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,616
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
http://www.westmonster.com/eu-rejects-british-calls-for-independent-brexit-monitor/

No great surprise there.
UK officials had asked for a third party, such as Canada, to oversee talks, specifically when it comes to issues such as EU citizens’ rights.
Why would a country such as Canada (a Commonwealth country) be the right choice for overseeing talks between the EU and the UK? Is the UK hoping that Canada will be more sympathetic to the UK?

There's a perfectly good organisation already in place to ensure that the rights of EU nations and their citizens, and those of EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU post-Brexit, are protected. But the UK doesn't want to accept it's jurisdiction.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 2:13 pm
  #20320  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,386
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
Nope, page 21, Title lll says "workers".
Nope - it says both.
jimenato is online now  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 2:38 pm
  #20321  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,895
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post

1) There was always the ability for the UK to have rules on those using free movement regarding work and/or Permanent Residence. That the UK failed to implement many of the available rules until the last few years is solely down to successive UK governments, rather than the fault of the EU.

2)Do you have a link for that?

3)Free movement is reserved solely for EU and EEA member states. Free trade agreements with non-EU countries won't include free movement rights. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring it up again.

1) Yes to some extent, but free movement is an essential freedom of the EU.

2) I can't remember where I originally read that Giscard d'Estaing changed the word because of UK protests, however this gives some idea---

That F-word | The Economist

3) We know that--another poster was suggesting UK FTAs with non-EU countries involved deals regarding movement of people. I pointed out it was not free movement.
Bipat is online now  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 2:42 pm
  #20322  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,895
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
I can think of few brexiters who should read it given their claims that there are aspects of EU membership they claim we did not sign up to.
The treaty of Rome specifically mentions the creation of a court .
Article 4.
This was back in 1957.
It's What we agreed to and voted for in a referendum back in the 70s.
The ECJ is not an EU creation but an EEC or " common market " one.
One by majority vote we agreed to.
It is not the ECJ that is objected to. It is the increased powers given to the court by the Lisbon Treaty. (There was no vote or referendum at that time.)
Bipat is online now  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 2:44 pm
  #20323  
FreeThinker
 
jimenato's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,386
jimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond reputejimenato has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

I've said before that Corbyn isn't our man when it comes to combating the worst of Brexit - he's a hard Brexiteer.

And he's wrong about the single market - it is possible to be outside the EU but in the single market (as Farage was promoting before the referendum).

Jeremy Corbyn Is 'Parroting Lies' Over Brexit, Warn Lib Dems | HuffPost UK
jimenato is online now  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 3:01 pm
  #20324  
EMR
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
It is not the ECJ that is objected to. It is the increased powers given to the court by the Lisbon Treaty. (There was no vote or referendum at that time.)
So the ECJ is no longer a problem.
Progress at last.
EMR is offline  
Old Jul 23rd 2017, 3:11 pm
  #20325  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 13,421
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
That is the point!! The Uk entered and the public voted to join the EEC a trade relationship.
The subsequent Treaties have moved it nearer to a federal system (the word "Federal" was changed to "Community" after protests by the UK. however just a word change!)
It isn't the point. It is your point, and one you can never tire of making, apparently.

However, whenever you make it, you revert to saying whatever-it-is-this-time goes beyond a trade relationship. We know. That's because it isn't just a trade relationship. OK? I've got that, you've got that - do you really need to keep hammering away at it?

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
As has been pointed out the EU has free trade relationships with non-EU countries the agreements to not include complete free movement of people to work and settle.
There are no free trade relationships anywhere that I can think of that are as broad or as deep as between the member states of the EU. The reason for almost everything else that goes with being a member state of the EU stems back to trying to ensure a level playing field for all the members in those trade relationships and to ensuring consistent treatment of EU citizens, who are both subject to and benefit from those relationships.
Red Eric is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.