British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

jimenato Aug 27th 2016 5:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12036472)
Fixed it for you.

The majority didn't vote Leave, they voted Remain or didn't vote at all. But the majority of those who voted, voted Leave. So what needs to be discussed now are 2 things;

1. Which of the possible exit scenarios should the government be aiming for?

2. How does the UK achieve that result with as little disruption to UK trade (imports and exports).

Once those are in place, then the government will likely trigger Article 50.

I'd like to see it triggered sooner, but don't see that happening in the next 12 months.

Quite - those are the points worth debating.

Talking about why anyone 'likes' the EU is an exercise in utter pointlessness.

mfesharne Aug 27th 2016 5:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12036472)
Fixed it for you.

The majority didn't vote Leave, they voted Remain or didn't vote at all. But the majority of those who voted, voted Leave. So what needs to be discussed now are 2 things;

1. Which of the possible exit scenarios should the government be aiming for?

2. How does the UK achieve that result with as little disruption to UK trade (imports and exports).

Once those are in place, then the government will likely trigger Article 50.

I'd like to see it triggered sooner, but don't see that happening in the next 12 months.

Actually that's incorrect:

The leave vote was 17,410,742

The remain vote was: 16,141,241

Invalid ballots was: 25,359

Percentage turnout was: 72.21%

Therefore even if you add the remain & all the invalid ballots (no guarantee how they'd have voted!) you only get 16166600 which is still less than the leave vote & of course the 27.79% that chose not to vote at all can be discounted because firstly they opted not to vote & secondly there is no way of knowing which way they could have voted.

Therefore, the leave vote was the majority.

You're point 2 & to some extent also point 1 can only be decided AFTER A50 is triggered because negotiations cannot begin until after A50 is triggered.

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 5:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12036459)
I like the EU because it allows me to go to another EU country to live and work without needing a work permit or anything other than my passport, and to have the same rights in any of those countries as their own nationals.

Brits and some Europeans may have been able to do so before the EU, but the EU formalised the rules across every member state.

The EU has facilitated Britain, a small island nation with few exports, few natural resources, and a large population enjoying some of the most generous social benefits on earth to (uniquely) sustain that. That might be a reason to like it.

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 5:55 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12036487)
That's the best answer so far & I thank you for that....... but can I point out the Brexit negotiations haven't even been started let alone concluded and it's far from impossible that'll still be possible in at least some of the EU countries after Brexit or more likely, a visa of some sort may be required but that the visa requirements may not be too onerous.

For example, if you can prove you have an income or a job and won't be a threat to or a drain on the country you wish to go to, then you're welcome.

I really can't see a post Brexit UK having many problems when it comes to moving around Europe simply because there are so many Europeans in the UK & any deal will obviously have to be reciprocal.

You assume that 27 member states will unanimously agree to allow Britain the most generous special status of all member nations, without any reason to do so (other than just because we're exceptionally British of course).

jimenato Aug 27th 2016 5:56 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12036494)
The EU has facilitated Britain, a small island nation with few exports, few natural resources, and a large population enjoying some of the most generous social benefits on earth to (uniquely) sustain that. That might be a reason to like it.

...while retaining 5th largest world economy.

mfesharne Aug 27th 2016 6:00 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12036495)
You assume that 27 member states will unanimously agree to allow Britain the most generous special status of all member nations, without any reason to do so (other than just because we're exceptionally British of course).

Don't be silly. It's not about them 'allowing' the UK anything.

It's about what the UK & EU negotiate between them & simple logic suggests that whatever deals are done will have to be reciprocal.

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 6:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12036497)
Don't be silly. It's not about them 'allowing' the UK anything.

It's about what the UK & EU negotiate between them & simple logic suggests that whatever deals are done will have to be reciprocal.

Hardly silly. A negotiation is a "give and take". What does Britain offer Europe? A modest market to sell things to is about it. And that won't change unless Britain bans European imports (hurting Britain mostly) so what else is there?

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 6:30 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12036496)
...while retaining 5th largest world economy.

Didn't Britain recently slip to 6th? After France? Germany is still 4th. France 5th. India still 7th, followed by Italy. I seem to remember Spain recently edging out South Korea for 11th place.

DaveLovesDee Aug 27th 2016 6:58 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12036493)
Actually that's incorrect:

The leave vote was 17,410,742

The remain vote was: 16,141,241

Invalid ballots was: 25,359

Percentage turnout was: 72.21%

Therefore even if you add the remain & all the invalid ballots (no guarantee how they'd have voted!) you only get 16166600 which is still less than the leave vote & of course the 27.79% that chose not to vote at all can be discounted because firstly they opted not to vote & secondly there is no way of knowing which way they could have voted.

Therefore, the leave vote was the majority.

You're point 2 & to some extent also point 1 can only be decided AFTER A50 is triggered because negotiations cannot begin until after A50 is triggered.

The remain vote and those who did not vote outnumbered the Leave vote. So the majority did not vote Leave, which is what I said in my previous post.

Yes, negotiations with the EU don't actually occur until A50 has been officially triggered, but I was referring to the UK government coming to an agreement internally on what end result we are aiming for.

Fredbargate Aug 27th 2016 7:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12036518)
The remain vote and those who did not vote outnumbered the Leave vote. So the majority did not vote Leave, which is what I said in my previous post.

Yes, negotiations with the EU don't actually soccer until A50 has been officially triggered, but I was referring to the UK government coming to an agree on what end result we are aiming for.

The leave vote and those that did not vote outnumbered the remain vote so the majority did not vote to remain :rofl:

mfesharne Aug 27th 2016 7:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12036518)
The remain vote and those who did not vote outnumbered the Leave vote. So the majority did not vote Leave, which is what I said in my previous post.

Yes, negotiations with the EU don't actually soccer until A50 has been officially triggered, but I was referring to the UK government coming to an agree on what end result we are aiming for.

Equally the leave vote + the non voters would have resulted in a larger Brexit majority or 50% of the non voters added to each side would have still resulted in a significant Brexit majority so it's logical to discount the non voters completely. Therefore the Brexit side was still in the majority.

Either way, it's a case of 'If my Uncle had tits, she'd be my Aunt but he doesn't so she isn't'. Which is why the official result was a Brexit majority.

As for has the UK Govt decided on what end result it wants...... I'd guess partly but time will tell. :)

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 7:25 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I always find it interesting how much the brexit camp knows "for sure". Especially considering that none if them seem to know much about Europe, the EU, or what brexit will entail.

mfesharne Aug 27th 2016 7:32 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12036534)
I always find it interesting how much the brexit camp knows "for sure". Especially considering that none if them seem to know much about Europe, the EU, or what brexit will entail.

Oh the irony! (again!) :rofl:

jimenato Aug 27th 2016 7:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mfesharne (Post 12036537)
Oh the irony! (again!) :rofl:

So, what will brexit entail?

amideislas Aug 27th 2016 7:39 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
What irony? It's pretty well known now that those leading the brexit campaign know little about Europe, the EU, or what brexit means.


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