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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Bipat Jul 19th 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12297980)
Bipat, look at the Telegraph link you posted. Do you think 'broke promise' was put in inverted commas because he broke a promise ?

Look at the last two sentences of the link!!

EMR Jul 19th 2017 6:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12297992)
Look at the last two sentences of the link!!

It's the telegraph a brexit newspaper, supporter of the eurosceptic factions.

Garbatellamike Jul 19th 2017 6:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12297958)
Apparently not ! We're talking two completely different (or not so different depending on your viewpoint) treaties, the one in question was dropped by the EU, Brown did not break his manifesto pledge.

Interestingly, France and Holland, after rejecting the Constitutional treaty didn't hold a second referendum for the Lisbon Treaty either.

Brown conspired to bring in the constitution by amending other treaties to have a defacto constitution to avoid the referendum he'd promised - dishonest, disingenuious and disgusting contempt for democracy.

You are right the EU elite realized they'd lose referendums so fell back on deceit :nod:

iano Jul 19th 2017 7:09 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12297992)
Look at the last two sentences of the link!!

I've already looked at them, and who it was being quoted.

Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP said:....

"Let's not forget that every Labour MP stood on a manifesto in 2005 that promised a referendum.

"If they have any honesty or integrity, they should be demanding that promise is kept."

Bipat Jul 19th 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12298037)
I've already looked at them, and who it was being quoted.

Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP said:....

"Let's not forget that every Labour MP stood on a manifesto in 2005 that promised a referendum.

"If they have any honesty or integrity, they should be demanding that promise is kept."

It was 2007--are you saying that the manifesto was not as he said?
The Guardian link also 2007, and others.
The subsequent--European Union Act 2011.

iano Jul 19th 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike (Post 12298028)
Brown conspired to bring in the constitution by amending other treaties to have a defacto constitution to avoid the referendum he'd promised - dishonest, disingenuious and disgusting contempt for democracy.

Jeez, not you and all, now look here for the last time. :p

This is the relevant snip from the Labour manifesto in 2005:


The new Constitutional Treaty ensures the new Europe can work effectively, and that Britain keeps control of key national interests like foreign policy, taxation, social security and defence. The Treaty sets out what the EU can do and what it cannot. It strengthens the voice of national parliaments and governments in EU affairs. It is a good treaty for Britain and for the new Europe. We will put it to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a ‘Yes’ vote to keep Britain a leading nation in Europe.
The Constitutional Treaty was dropped. Finito, bang, gone, dumped, no constitution, there was no need for the referendum as promised.

Lastly, the Lisbon Treaty is not a de-facto or defining constitutional document, as was proposed in the original treaty document and upon which Brown promised the referendum. So there. :lol:

DaveLovesDee Jul 19th 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12298037)
I've already looked at them, and who it was being quoted.

Nigel Farage, the leader of UKIP said:....

"Let's not forget that every Labour MP stood on a manifesto in 2005 that promised a referendum.

"If they have any honesty or integrity, they should be demanding that promise is kept."

How many parties have followed through on every election manifesto pledge?

20 promises the Tories have broken since being elected two years ago

Bipat Jul 19th 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12298059)
Jeez, not you and all, now look here for the last time. :p

This is the relevant snip from the Labour manifesto in 2005:



The Constitutional Treaty was dropped. Finito, bang, gone, dumped, no constitution, there was no need for the referendum as promised.

Lastly, the Lisbon Treaty is not a de-facto or defining constitutional document, as was proposed in the original treaty document and upon which Brown promised the referendum. So there. :lol:

As I said above it was a matter of wording--the Treaty basically contained amendments.

Valéry Giscard d'Estaing: The EU Treaty is the same as the Constitution | The Independent

Bipat Jul 19th 2017 8:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12298063)
How many parties have followed through on every election manifesto pledge?

20 promises the Tories have broken since being elected two years ago

Yes, but there is a chance of another general election within a few years! How often is there a chance to vote in a referendum?:lol:

Novocastrian Jul 19th 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by AllanB (Post 12297935)
I think the UK will win the current fight against the EU and this is why.

The UK is fighting for the whole of UK, for the Nation's Economy and all for British businesses. So although the politicians are squabbling, there is a common cause here.

The EU negotiators are fighting only for their own political survival, but often against the national interests of their members and also against the interests of many of the businesses throughout Europe. So there is no common cause at all, quite the opposite.

Secondly, we are leaving and have a wider future to look forward to, the EU has lots of trouble ahead, all created by the EU. Like:-

1. The massive migrant crisis.
2. The huge financial crises, in counties like Greece, Spain, Italy and Ireland.
3. The multi£billion (17.%) hole in the EU budget, after we leave.
4. The financial woes of many of the banks that are still being bailed out.
5. The trouble with the Euro as a result of the above.
6. The V4 rebellion.
7. The financing of the new EU army.
8. The US demand that all countries must spend the required 2% of GDP on defence, to meet their NATO commitments. Germany need to nearly double their spend.
9. The USA...they just don't like the EU.

The above problems are a huge burden for the remaining 27 to bear.

There are some short term problems for the UK, like the current poker game that has to be played out, but we hold all the good cards.

That's my take...

Naff off you silly man.

iano Jul 19th 2017 8:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/roch...isbon-1.836056

EMR Jul 19th 2017 8:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12298053)
It was 2007--are you saying that the manifesto was not as he said?
The Guardian link also 2007, and others.
The subsequent--European Union Act 2011.

The manifest referred to a referendum on the European constitution , not EU membership.

Do you honestly believe that was what Farage was referring to.

You are not that naive are you.?

DaveLovesDee Jul 19th 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12298078)
The manifest referred to a referendum on the European constitution , not EU membership.

Do you honestly believe that was what Farage was referring to.

You are not that naive are you.?

17.4 million people were :p

So is the UK Brexit team.

Garbatellamike Jul 19th 2017 8:30 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12298059)
Jeez, not you and all, now look here for the last time. :p

This is the relevant snip from the Labour manifesto in 2005:



The Constitutional Treaty was dropped. Finito, bang, gone, dumped, no constitution, there was no need for the referendum as promised.

Lastly, the Lisbon Treaty is not a de-facto or defining constitutional document, as was proposed in the original treaty document and upon which Brown promised the referendum. So there. :lol:

nope in an act of sophistry they avoided the referendum they'd promised - end of

Bipat Jul 19th 2017 8:43 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12298073)

Again you didn't read my link! He was promoting the Lisbon Treaty, just said it wasn't different from the Constitution.


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