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Post EU Referendum

Post EU Referendum

Old Jun 22nd 2017, 5:30 pm
  #19051  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
When will it get into your head that Brexit concerns the UK and EU and has nothing (!) to do with the rest of the world.
The rest of the world will become important AFTER Brexit !

And what do you have against a trading community (your words not mine) ?
Let me tell you that for millions and millions of people who live and work here, the EU is not just a trading community ! The EU as a whole is our HOME !
And I for one do NOT understand why the UK (England and Wales actually) want to lock their door to the rest of the family.
Indeed NARROW MINDED NATIONALISM !!!!

Rant over
I for one agree wholeheartedly with you Annetje .I am a little tired of this post being hijacked to discuss other parts of the world which have zero to do with this debate. The EU is my home as well. It is obvious to me why the UK reneged on the promise to allow ex-pats to vote ,why the government allowed misinformation to circulate in the press.why they made sure a certain ugly message was pressed forward.

It was the plan of the few to control the many. I am frankly shocked at how easily the British people have been fooled. How the voices of reason have been silenced. In other words how truly BADLY INFORMED they have been.
Ms May and cohorts requested and expected the negotiations to be private and secret. Its not the way the EU works however. Everything will be open and above board ..Too late to protest when the people get the result they did not ask for,but was inevitable.,given how they have been lead down the garden path by this bunch of so called 'leaders'.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 5:51 pm
  #19052  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Fancy that ...

Brexit: Leave voter realises his fruit farms could collapse without EU migrant workers | The Independent

Harry Hall, of the Hall Hunter Partnership soft fruit company, said he was in favour of Brexit because of the issue of sovereignty but was concerned by the Government's approach to negotiations.

Didn't Mrs May mention in one of her speeches that the UK never lost their sovereignty ?
Oh well, live goes on
Once again we get back to the LACK OF INFORMATION the average UK citizen seems to have been happy to receive pre .referendum voting. Is it lack of education? brains? interest' This guy was in business FFS. It's only JUST occurring to the numpty that his WHOLE business is now in jeopardy? Lord help us then.
Watch an episode of' country file' people. It won't be long before you come across some guy growing tulips,or asparagus.. check out the workers in the background ALL from the EU...I was waiting last week for one of the 'Blue Peter' type presenters to turn around and say.. 'and are you all staying after Brexit'? Not a word of course.. Everything on the farm is rosy... Meanwhile.. no more nurses are applying to come to the UK. The economy in the EU is soaring. companies are moving there instead because they are frankly sick of the uncertainty... Good Job team uk...
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 5:56 pm
  #19053  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
I for one agree wholeheartedly with you Annetje .I am a little tired of this post being hijacked to discuss other parts of the world which have zero to do with this debate. The EU is my home as well. It is obvious to me why the UK reneged on the promise to allow ex-pats to vote ,why the government allowed misinformation to circulate in the press.why they made sure a certain ugly message was pressed forward.

It was the plan of the few to control the many. I am frankly shocked at how easily the British people have been fooled. How the voices of reason have been silenced. In other words how truly BADLY INFORMED they have been.
Ms May and cohorts requested and expected the negotiations to be private and secret. Its not the way the EU works however. Everything will be open and above board ..Too late to protest when the people get the result they did not ask for,but was inevitable.,given how they have been lead down the garden path by this bunch of so called 'leaders'.
Mentioning other parts of the world is not "discussing" other parts of the world just pointing out that they exist! Also that the majority of migrants in the UK come from other parts of the world.
Also Post EU-- they will be increasingly important as trading partners to the UK and also to the EU if you care to read about it.
There seems to be a 'blindness; about the rest of the world from some remainers--not you of course, and then even accuse Brexiters of being Xenophobic!!

It is obvious that expats who have lived long term in EU countries would be biased towards not leaving the EU. They have left the UK permanently why should they have a vote on the future of those who have never left and don't want to leave?

(As a side issue --why is it that migrants to the UK must become totally British in their integration etc, but Ok for British "expats" to still keep a foot in the UK and influence its future?)

So what you are saying is that because many in the UK disagree with your views about UK membership of the EU they are "fooled" , incapable of listening to reason, were not able to read the wealth of information from both sides etc etc.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 6:03 pm
  #19054  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Mentioning other parts of the world is not "discussing" other parts of the world just pointing out that they exist! Also that the majority of migrants in the UK come from other parts of the world.
Also Post EU-- they will be increasingly important as trading partners to the UK and also to the EU if you care to read about it.
There seems to be a 'blindness; about the rest of the world from some remainers--not you of course, and then even accuse Brexiters of being Xenophobic!!

It is obvious that expats who have lived long term in EU countries would be biased towards not leaving the EU. They have left the UK permanently why should they have a vote on the future of those who have never left and don't want to leave?

(As a side issue --why is it that migrants to the UK must become totally British in their integration etc, but Ok for British "expats" to still keep a foot in the UK and influence its future?)

So what you are saying is that because many in the UK disagree with your views about UK membership of the EU they are "fooled" , incapable of listening to reason, were not able to read the wealth of information from both sides etc etc.


Did you even bother to read the article ?
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 6:08 pm
  #19055  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Once again we get back to the LACK OF INFORMATION the average UK citizen seems to have been happy to receive pre .referendum voting. Is it lack of education? brains? interest' This guy was in business FFS. It's only JUST occurring to the numpty that his WHOLE business is now in jeopardy? Lord help us then.
Watch an episode of' country file' people. It won't be long before you come across some guy growing tulips,or asparagus.. check out the workers in the background ALL from the EU...I was waiting last week for one of the 'Blue Peter' type presenters to turn around and say.. 'and are you all staying after Brexit'? Not a word of course.. Everything on the farm is rosy... Meanwhile.. no more nurses are applying to come to the UK. The economy in the EU is soaring. companies are moving there instead because they are frankly sick of the uncertainty... Good Job team uk...
No more nurses at the moment applying from the EU---there you go again, ignoring the fact that the majority of foreign origin nurses in the UK are not from EU countries.
Yes of course you are right the majority of Brexiters--more than half the voters are unintelligent, uninterested, uneducated, brainless. Can you as a person having left the UK and happily living in an EU country explain why you want the UK as a member of the EU community?
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 6:12 pm
  #19056  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post


Did you even bother to read the article ?
Yes I read the article. As I have said before workers from 'Europe', have been coming to the UK long before the EEC/EU, they will continue to come.
This is just creating fear.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 6:19 pm
  #19057  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes I read the article. As I have said before workers from 'Europe', have been coming to the UK long before the EEC/EU, they will continue to come.
This is just creating fear.
Well done

Think the proposal is 1000 £ per immigrant per year = 2.500.000 £ per year for this company alone.
No wonder the Tories are laughing all the way to the bank
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 6:23 pm
  #19058  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
No more nurses at the moment applying from the EU---there you go again, ignoring the fact that the majority of foreign origin nurses in the UK are not from EU countries.
Yes of course you are right the majority of Brexiters--more than half the voters are unintelligent, uninterested, uneducated, brainless. Can you as a person having left the UK and happily living in an EU country explain why you want the UK as a member of the EU community?
As the chancellor said in his speech this week, people did not vote to be poorer and less secure...

They did not vote for the chaos that brexit is turning into.

All that matters is the economy, as the saying goes its the economy stupid .
UK industry, finance, agriculture etc are all lining up to broadcast the same message..

Those matters that concern you will not keep a single person in a job, pay their rent or mortgage.
That is all that matters in the real world.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 7:11 pm
  #19059  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
This is Mrs May her homework for tonight :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...britons-europe

Theresa May must match the EU’s lifetime guarantee to preserve the rights of Britons living on the continent with a reciprocal package for EU citizens living in the UK, say campaign groups.

The prime minister is expected to finally outline her proposal for the 3 million EU citizens living in the UK at a dinner in Brussels on Thursday night. The EU sent its proposal to the British government on 12 June but has heard nothing since.
It wants Britons in Europe to continue to have all current rights for the rest of their lives including freedom of movement rights to work in other countries following Brexit.
That has always been my understanding of what the EU wanted with regard to those citizens on both sides of this who have already exercised their treaty rights ie that it wanted them protected in their entirety and in perpetuity.

I've always been told I'm wrong, though, and that the UK was desperately trying to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK but the EU wouldn't reciprocate. Alongside the claim that if the UK had issued any sort of unilateral guarantee, the EU would have pulled the rug from under the feet of UK citizens resident elsewhere in the EU.

Money, mouth time but I'm not holding my breath for the UK to come up trumps on this. The EU, of course, is also keen for the ECJ to be the arbiter in any future disputes about whether whatever is the final deal is being upheld by the UK, whereas the current UK government thinks its own courts are perfectly capable of deciding that.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 8:30 pm
  #19060  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
And I for one do NOT understand why the UK (England and Wales actually) want to lock their door to the rest of the family.
Indeed NARROW MINDED NATIONALISM !!!!
Anytime it was discussed during the referendum campaign of publicising the benefits of eu membership in schools and the media, we were told by Leavers that such 'propaganda' should be excluded.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I read previously that Mrs May said those already in the UK before article 50 triggered had a right to stay. Can't find a link regarding that.
Because she never actually said those words. And the rights of EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals living in the EU, can't be stopped at the day A50 was triggered, only from the day we officially are no longer an EU member.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The fact that the EU is not just a trade association is why the UK voted leave. They joined the EEC.
That's not why I voted. And 48% of those who voted, voted Remain. In Gibraltar, it was 96% Remain. The UK did not vote Leave, Leave got more votes overall.

17.4m voted Leave.
16.1m people voted Remain.
12.9m people did not vote.
18.1m people weren't allowed to vote. Many of these would have been EU nationals in the UK, or UK nationals who have lived abroad for more than 15 years.

Show this chart to anyone who says Brexit is the 'will of the British people'

Re: we joined the EEC.
It made sense moving from using TIR carnets for the cross-border movement of goods but having the drivers of the vehicles carrying those goods to need visas to cross the borders, and one you ease restrictions for one category of workers, it also makes sense to widen it for other workers (and yes, people could live and work in other EEC countries (and before this) but free movement made this much easier).

Originally Posted by Golden Years View Post
Do you think that the EU will require British people to get a visa before they can enter?
I hope not. But this will be one of the discussions in the second round of negotiations, probably next year. Whatever the UK/EU sets in place will apply to the other's nationals entering the UK/EU.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Can you not understand that the fact that EU law is supreme is something many in the UK do not like. Majority of countries of the world have their own justice system and decides who comes to permanently live there, why is this a sign of "nationalism"?
Is this the same EU law that the UK has been fully involved in drafting since it joined? Our Prime Minister is an equal member of the EU Council of Ministers (and the UK has held the Presidency 5 times (would have held the next one too until the referendum result). And our MEPs.

(In future do you want EU countries to partake in sports as EU and not their individual countries? If not why not?)
Straw man....... If one was to suggest the EU participating instead of national countries, Leavers would argue that this is the EU taking more away from member states. And I'm not sure why you'd want someone to argue against it. I think you're trying to pick an argument for argument's sake.

as I said the end of 'free movement' ended with the Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962--it didn't stop them coming to the UK did it.
The CIA 1962 just made it harder for them to do so.

European people will still come and live in the UK as they always have and vice versa.
It will just be made harder for them to do so.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Fancy that ...

Brexit: Leave voter realises his fruit farms could collapse without EU migrant workers | The Independent

Harry Hall, of the Hall Hunter Partnership soft fruit company, said he was in favour of Brexit because of the issue of sovereignty but was concerned by the Government's approach to negotiations.

Didn't Mrs May mention in one of her speeches that the UK never lost their sovereignty?
It was one of the first paragraphs of the Brexit White Paper.

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Think the proposal is 1000 £ per immigrant per year = 2.500.000 £ per year for this company alone.
For non-EU's (and post-Brexit EU nationals). And that doesn't include the cost of the visa application by the employee.

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Jun 22nd 2017 at 9:13 pm.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 9:07 pm
  #19061  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post


Did you even bother to read the article ?

Thank you Annette it is pointless isn't it...
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 9:09 pm
  #19062  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

'The UK did not vote Leave, Leave got more votes overall.'

?
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 9:15 pm
  #19063  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
'The UK did not vote Leave, Leave got more votes overall.'

?
Gib didn't vote Leave.
Scotland didn't vote Leave, neither did NI, most of Liverpool, Manchester and London. So no, the UK did not vote Leave.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 9:19 pm
  #19064  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post

1) That's not why I voted. And 48% of those who voted, voted Remain. In Gibraltar, it was 96% Remain. The UK did not vote Leave, Leave got more votes overall.

17.4m voted Leave.
16.1m people voted Remain.
12.9m people did not vote.
18.1m people weren't allowed to vote. Many of these would have been EU nationals in the UK, or UK nationals who have lived abroad for more than 15 years.

Show this chart to anyone who says Brexit is the 'will of the British people'

2)Is this the same EU law that the UK has been fully involved in drafting since it joined? Our Prime Minister is an equal member of the EU Council of Ministers (and the UK has held the Presidency 5 times (would have held the next one too until the referendum result).

3)
It will just be made harder for them to do so.

For non-EU's (and post-Brexit EU nationals). And that doesn't include the cost of the visa application by the employee.

1) You could use this argument about any general election, you may disagree with the result, but that doesn't alter it!
You mention expats living abroad for more than 15 years not allowed to vote.
I asked the question but no answers --'on this Forum there are frequent posts expressing the thought that immigrants/expats in the UK should integrate fully and become 'British' including those with dual nationality. So why do you think the British integrated more than 15 years in another country should be able to vote on the future of a country they have left'?

2) I asked-- why a country wanting its own justice system and decisions as to who settles in the country indicates some form of 'rampant nationalism'?

3) How is it that non-EU migrants manage to afford a visa and fill in the forms and fly thousands of miles!! We are discussing post Brexit.
Certainly there should be a different system for those from near countries coming for temporary work.
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Old Jun 22nd 2017, 9:23 pm
  #19065  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Gib didn't vote Leave.
Scotland didn't vote Leave, neither did NI, most of Liverpool, Manchester and London. So no, the UK did not vote Leave.
But Leave got more votes overall...haven't we all been down this road before?
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