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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Bipat May 26th 2017 8:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12260792)
Like this?

There is something deeply ironic about the wave of nostalgia sweeping political discourse in modern Britain. On one hand, it harks – increasingly since the Brexit vote – back to the age of empire. “A small island perched on the edge of the European continent became a leader of world trade,” is how international trade secretary Liam Fox fondly described that epoch to a group of Commonwealth trade ministers. On the other, the supposed humanitarianism that accompanied that age has been swiftly forgotten.

While the empire was founded on racist beliefs about the supposed inferiority of the people it subjugated, humanitarianism was its proudly flaunted justification. This was manifested perfectly in Winston Churchill, who was able to boast of killing “savages” in Sudan, while also playing a leading role in creating the international humanitarian norms that many consider one of the great accomplishments of the 20th century.

More Guardian!! No, read the speeches of Ministers and ambassadors from countries concerned.

morpeth May 26th 2017 8:48 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12260339)
What wrong information Chinatown/ as it has with many industries will soon have its own home grown aircraft industry competing with the two current big players,
Airbus and Boeing. That's a fact.
China and Russia are cooperating on joint ventures to expand competition with Airbus and Boeing.
That is a fact.
China's policy is to replace imports with home production moving into high value , high tech.
These are facts .

It's a problem some brexiters have, dealing with facts.

I remember similar predictions that Japan would dominate world trade following similar policies as China does protecting home production and moving into higher value exports. Germany has until just a few years ago had been the number one exporter notwithstanding it wasn't a low wage economy.

China has many challenges it may face in the future, and has many advantages : economies of scale, and a determined political leadership not burdened by the political issues affecting Will China be a tough competitor ? Of course. Will ever be a world financial center ? Doubtful. Will the Chinese never want a more open society and more social benefits ? I would guess not unreasonable to expect the Chinese will want more benefits and more openness as time goes on, thus increasing costs. Does the Swiss, German and Silicon Valley examples not show there is more to understanding exports and economic development than simply low wages ?

EMR May 26th 2017 9:12 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 12260818)
I remember similar predictions that Japan would dominate world trade following similar policies as China does protecting home production and moving into higher value exports. Germany has until just a few years ago had been the number one exporter notwithstanding it wasn't a low wage economy.

China has many challenges it may face in the future, and has many advantages : economies of scale, and a determined political leadership not burdened by the political issues affecting Will China be a tough competitor ? Of course. Will ever be a world financial center ? Doubtful. Will the Chinese never want a more open society and more social benefits ? I would guess not unreasonable to expect the Chinese will want more benefits and more openness as time goes on, thus increasing costs. Does the Swiss, German and Silicon Valley examples not show there is more to understanding exports and economic development than simply low wages ?

The Chinese manage their economy centrally.
I was part of an industry that was devastated in no small part by Chinese imports.
UK purchasing managers were queuing up to go to China looking for cheaper product.
One of the advantages the Chinese had was very low cost tooling.
So what did we and others try to do, buy tooling from China.
The Chinese government blocked exports, ensuring that it's home manufacturers retained that advantage.
What is left of that part of UK manufacturing is now just 5 manufacturing plants owned by 4 companies, none British, all subsidiaries of EU companies.
The Chinese will manage its economy to ensure that Chinese manufactures trade at an advantage.
In 10,15 years I would not be surprised if the majority of Chinese airlines and it's regional subsidiaries are flying Chinese built versions of Airbus and Boeing
There will be inducements and other pressures to ensure they do.
China will always undercut the west knowing that we need them.
Just look at Trump's U turn once he got into office and was shown the books.

la mancha May 26th 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I recently bought two items in a corner shop, a pair of scissors, and a screwdriver in a hard plastic wrap, both made in China. The scissors split into two when I tried to cut open the plastic wrap. The screwdriver handle turned when I tried to undo a screw but the shaft remained stationary. Go figure. You can keep Chinese home-grown crap.

EMR May 26th 2017 1:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12260919)
I recently bought two items in a corner shop, a pair of scissors, and a screwdriver in a hard plastic wrap, both made in China. The scissors split into two when I tried to cut open the plastic wrap. The screwdriver handle turned when I tried to undo a screw but the shaft remained stationary. Go figure. You can keep Chinese home-grown crap.

Try and find UK manufactured at a price you are prepared to pay
Where did you shop ,poundland in which case what did you expect.

la mancha May 26th 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I did and I am very happy with my UK manufactured long-lasting goods. Never again anything home-grown Chinese. And not Poundland. A corner shop. By the way, Poundland has some very good products. Want to buy some Chinese scissors? I have a pair, superglue extra. BOGOF.

Lion in Winter May 26th 2017 1:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12260926)
I did and I am very happy with my UK manufactured long-lasting goods. Never again anything home-grown Chinese. And not Poundland. A corner shop. By the way, Poundland has some very good products. Want to buy some Chinese scissors? I have a pair, superglue extra. BOGOF.

Yeah. Bloody Chinese don't know how to make anything...

Chinese vase sells for world record-breaking £53.1 million at auction - Telegraph

Obviously, the problem is not where a product is made but the specs to which it is made. If a British company is selling Chinese scissors, you can bet the specs were provided to the Chinese factory by the British company, or that they accepted the product as made. An apparently insatiable demand for cheap goods and for profit drives this, not China as such. Underpaid and child labour is also popular - and it is our companies and companies all over the world fueling this, and all the customers for cheap goods, not just the Chinese.

I believe it's called "capitalism".

la mancha May 26th 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I bet the vase was a copy.

SultanOfSwing May 26th 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12260761)
797 was a typo.
Do not underestimate the Chinese, they are not the Russians.
China and it's neighboring countries are the fastest growing market for airtravel in the world.
China will want its share of that.
If it takes only 20% of the market that would be sales that would have gone to Airbus and Boeing.

It's not that I was underestimating the Chinese, but perhaps I was overestimating Boeing and Airbus. That being said, Ilyushin and Tupolev do make reasonably good planes and yet you don't see them being operated outside of the former USSR (Cuba being a notable exception, as Cubana uses the IL-96).

Though, I suppose it depends on what part of the market they want to hone in on. The 737 is now 50 years old and some of the newer variants have a 3,000+ mile range - more than enough to cover domestic Chinese and short-medium haul SE Asian routes. If they came up with a cheap, reliable aircraft in the 200 seat capacity range that sat somewhere between, say the 737-800 and 757-200 for operational range, with ETOPS certification then they could capture some of that 737/A321 market, at least in SE Asia if not beyond.

I still feel it will be a while before North American and European carriers move away from the 'Big Two'. If this does happen, it's going to be a 5-10 year thing, if not longer, so it'll transcend all the Brexit and post-Brexit bullshit that'll happen in the meantime.

EMR May 26th 2017 1:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12260926)
I did and I am very happy with my UK manufactured long-lasting goods. Never again anything home-grown Chinese. And not Poundland. A corner shop. By the way, Poundland has some very good products. Want to buy some Chinese scissors? I have a pair, superglue extra. BOGOF.

Where can you buy UK manufactured goods at a price you are prepared to pay.
I too have tools inherited from my father , now at least 50 years old.
The companies went bust or moved production out of the UK years ago.

amideislas May 26th 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Yeah, well, Trump wants Americans to "buy American" too. Unfortunately, aside from automobiles and heavy machinery, many, many "American" products are (necessarily) made in Asia or elsewhere. I think someone may have "ahem'd" him recently on that topic.

Yeah, good. Buy British. (Note to production manager: Tell the Shanghai factory to put Union Jack stickers on the boxes.).

Bipat May 26th 2017 2:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12260971)
Yeah, well, Trump wants Americans to "buy American" too. Unfortunately, aside from automobiles and heavy machinery, many, many "American" products are (necessarily) made in Asia or elsewhere. I think someone may have "ahem'd" him recently on that topic.

Yeah, good. Buy British. (Note to production manager: Tell the Shanghai factory to put Union Jack stickers on the boxes.).


If I buy 'made in India' clothes in the UK they are properly stitched, colour fast etc. the same sort of clothes bought in home market much inferior.
Last week in UK ordered a Kurta top online from an Indian company, the label stated ---made in China!
China makes goods for other 'Asian' countries--I didn't know that they made clothes for them though!
Its Global!

GeniB May 31st 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12260932)
Yeah. Bloody Chinese don't know how to make anything...

Chinese vase sells for world record-breaking £53.1 million at auction - Telegraph

Obviously, the problem is not where a product is made but the specs to which it is made. If a British company is selling Chinese scissors, you can bet the specs were provided to the Chinese factory by the British company, or that they accepted the product as made. An apparently insatiable demand for cheap goods and for profit drives this, not China as such. Underpaid and child labour is also popular - and it is our companies and companies all over the world fueling this, and all the customers for cheap goods, not just the Chinese.

I believe it's called "capitalism".

The British are known for wanting and talking about everything being 'cheap' Its a standing joke in the Netherlands.

GeniB May 31st 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12260939)
It's not that I was underestimating the Chinese, but perhaps I was overestimating Boeing and Airbus. That being said, Ilyushin and Tupolev do make reasonably good planes and yet you don't see them being operated outside of the former USSR (Cuba being a notable exception, as Cubana uses the IL-96).

Though, I suppose it depends on what part of the market they want to hone in on. The 737 is now 50 years old and some of the newer variants have a 3,000+ mile range - more than enough to cover domestic Chinese and short-medium haul SE Asian routes. If they came up with a cheap, reliable aircraft in the 200 seat capacity range that sat somewhere between, say the 737-800 and 757-200 for operational range, with ETOPS certification then they could capture some of that 737/A321 market, at least in SE Asia if not beyond.

I still feel it will be a while before North American and European carriers move away from the 'Big Two'. If this does happen, it's going to be a 5-10 year thing, if not longer, so it'll transcend all the Brexit and post-Brexit bullshit that'll happen in the meantime.

Not quite right... Ilyushin's and Tupolev's fly out of Eindhoven airport... only as freight carriers though:blink:

SultanOfSwing May 31st 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12263467)
Not quite right... Ilyushin's and Tupolev's fly out of Eindhoven airport... only as freight carriers though:blink:

Are they Dutch carriers or Russian, though? I was probably a little unclear, obviously you'll see Russian made planes at airports outside Russia, but the operators (Cubana aside with their IL-96, and a few others) are almost exclusively Russian or ex-USSR nationality carriers.


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