British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR May 23rd 2017 7:50 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258917)
"Continue to have influence"? Never had any, would not have had any in the future. The EU want an ever closer union, we just wanted a free trade group.

I don't understand why you think the UK is running away "like a coward". We want to remain a sovereign nation, trading wherever we can in the world on our own terms not those the EU Customs Union forces on us.

If what "goes on" afterwards affects us then we can and will "bitch" about it and try to minimise any adverse effects.

It's strange just how many brexiters cannot or will not comment when asked why is it that other EU Members out perform outt sell the UK in the same markets, same developing economies while operating under exactly the same EU rules as the UK.

It's as if they are looking for an excuse for the poor performance, motivation of British exporters and the economic policies of past UK governments that have ignored UK manufacturing and industry.
It's never our fault, always someone else's.
It's nothing to do with the EU , it's down to us and little will change when we exit.

Bipat May 23rd 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258912)
If you can afford it.

It seems England Britain will have many other things to worry about than buying a holiday home in some "Britain in the sun" location abroad. And flights over to the third-world will be fewer and expensive, too.

I reckon Margate or Blackpool are rather ideal for Brits. OK, they only get sun for maybe 4 weeks, but hey, small sacrifice for "taking back control", eh? And Europeans won't likely miss you anyway... Win-Win.

What do you mean by that? Interested as our flights to what you call the third world have become relatively less expensive (apart from peak Christmas time!). What is this to do with the EU membership?

amideislas May 23rd 2017 8:11 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258927)
I appreciate your concern but we can afford it, as can many of our compatriots.

Haven't noticed that the city of Valencia was especially "Britain in the Sun" but I'll look again when we get back next month. Not sure what you meant about flights over to the third world but, rest assured, we have no plans to go to Africa or certain parts of Asia. Meanwhile, we can get round trip flights to most parts of Spain for about £100. Maybe that will double, you think? We will manage, don't fret.

Britain will be in the EU, including all its benefits, until, well, probably 2019. All good things come to an end - if you choose to end them. And England has chosen just that.

amideislas May 23rd 2017 8:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12258939)
What do you mean by that? Interested as our flights to what you call the third world have become relatively less expensive (apart from peak Christmas time!). What is this to do with the EU membership?

Third world: anywhere outside of blighty, innit?

Anyway:

BREXIT: FLYING COULD TAKE A HUGE STEP BACKWARDS TO SEVENTIES-LIKE CONDITIONS, SAYS AIRLINE BOSS

Higher air fares, less choice and possibly even a return to 1970s air charter days to get around flight restrictions: a leading UK airline boss has told The Independent what could await British travellers if the present “open skies” arrangements end after Brexit.

Andrew Swaffield, chief executive of Monarch, said: “Fares will gradually go up and there will be less competition.” He said the remarkable choice and low fares currently available to British travellers are due to European liberalisation.

The EU and some nearby countries comprise the European Common Aviation Area (ECAA), which is based on “mutual market access to the air transport market”.
states is entitled to establish operations anywhere in Europe, and to fly between any two ECAA airports.

“|t’s easy to forget the benefits, and what facilitated those benefits,” said Mr Swaffield.

DaveLovesDee May 23rd 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Golden Years (Post 12258917)
"Continue to have influence"? Never had any, would not have had any in the future.

Absolute bollocks!

Never had any? We've had enough influence over the years to negotiate rebates and opt-outs that most other EU countries don't have. And the UK held the 6-month Presidency of the EU at the following times;

1977 Jan-Jun
1981 Jul-Dec
1986 Jul-Dec
1992 Jul-Dec
1998 Jan-Jun
2005 Jul-Dec

The UK would also have held the Presidency of the EU from July this year before the UK voted to Leave the EU in the Referendum. The Presidency allows whichever country holding it to set the agenda for it's term.


The EU want an ever closer union, we just wanted a free trade group.
Closer political union isn't always a bad thing. The US has a federal government, the states have their own governments too (which would correspond to the governments of each member state).

If an EU government was directly elected in a similar way to the EU Parliament, this would remove the argument that the EU is unelected (Theresa May is the UK representative, and she was elected to the UK Parliament).


I don't understand why you think the UK is running away "like a coward". We want to remain a sovereign nation, trading wherever we can in the world on our own terms not those the EU Customs Union forces on us.
So you admit we were a sovereign nation even as a member of the EU?

Brexit White Paper


Parliamentary Sovereignty
2.1 The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.
I wonder why? The media and politicians constantly lying to the public about the EU probably had something to do with it!

The UK Prime Minister and MEPs have always had a say in the decisions of the EU. The EU customs union members have all been agreed by the EU member state representatives.


If what "goes on" afterwards affects us then we can and will "bitch" about it and try to minimise any adverse effects.
But when Remainers try to discuss the Referendum vote, we were told to 'quit whining' and 'suck it up'!

Karma's a bitch.....

Bipat May 23rd 2017 8:42 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258948)
Third world: anywhere outside of blighty, innit?

Anyway:

BREXIT: FLYING COULD TAKE A HUGE STEP BACKWARDS TO SEVENTIES-LIKE CONDITIONS, SAYS AIRLINE BOSS

Higher air fares, less choice and possibly even a return to 1970s air charter days to get around flight restrictions: a leading UK airline boss has told The Independent what could await British travellers if the present “open skies” arrangements end after Brexit.

Andrew Swaffield, chief executive of Monarch, said: “Fares will gradually go up and there will be less competition.” He said the remarkable choice and low fares currently available to British travellers are due to European liberalisation.

The EU and some nearby countries comprise the European Common Aviation Area (ECAA), which is based on “mutual market access to the air transport market”.
states is entitled to establish operations anywhere in Europe, and to fly between any two ECAA airports.

“|t’s easy to forget the benefits, and what facilitated those benefits,” said Mr Swaffield.

These are flights to European countries. Monarch!! charter flights! --they used to do more flights to further countries, and were often more expensive than other airlines.

Bipat May 23rd 2017 8:49 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12258934)
It's strange just how many brexiters cannot or will not comment when asked why is it that other EU Members out perform outt sell the UK in the same markets, same developing economies while operating under exactly the same EU rules as the UK.

It's as if they are looking for an excuse for the poor performance, motivation of British exporters and the economic policies of past UK governments that have ignored UK manufacturing and industry.
It's never our fault, always someone else's.
It's nothing to do with the EU , it's down to us and little will change when we exit.

There were many reasons for the Brexit vote, discussed at length on this Forum.
One reason the UK sells less is because of currency differences, making exports, for example Germany, cheaper for overseas consumers.
" Little will change", perhaps a "little" will be a start?

amideislas May 23rd 2017 8:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12258965)
These are flights to European countries. Monarch!! charter flights! --they used to do more flights to further countries, and were often more expensive than other airlines.

Well, Ryanair and EasyJet are saying the same thing. OK, carriers like BA are intercontinental, but they do have European flights, and they'll be affected too.

British based airlines warned they 'must move to EU after Brexit or lose major routes'

I'm surprised you wouldn't know this. It's just another of the many Brexit consequences. Public knowledge.

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 9:12 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258861)
Did you get that from the mail, the sun, or the express?

Still no.

Take some temazepam.

Who is it that has dozens of red top front pages to hand all the time? It's you, isn't it?

How do you get your weird lefty views on your diet of red tops?

Are you bipolar? I bet you are.

Explains the overt inferiority complex for sure.

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 9:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12258889)
I think the Commission might have politely asked Cameron if he wouldn't mind agreeing to take a few and there was this hysterical tantrum which ensued before Cameron said the UK was going to jolly well exercise its opt out on all matters immigration and asylum and wouldn't be taking any at all who were already in the EU. He may have added "over my dead body" - or was that over something else on which they decided to test him to see if he really was a man of his word and found him wanting?

Anyway, so much for "the EU failed abysmally" on that front. And thanks, UK. Well done. Very accommodating of you. The EU is actually a collection of nations, of which the UK was, and for the moment still is, one. It just happens to be one of the furthest from the fallout from its unnecessary wars and separated from most of the others by a moat.

Not that I wish to reignite the whole asylum seekers thing. It's been done to death and it's served it's very useful purpose in the Brexit saga of securing a Leave vote, despite the fact that it was all firmly at arms' length from the UK.

When people started drowning in the Med, Angela Merkel UNILATERALLY decided that the outer borders of Europe would be thrown open and that anyone and everyone was welcome to come.

No discussion. No agreement.

The damage is done. She cannot undo it despite her yellow jersey for backpedalling after the fact when she eventually and too late realised her error.

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 9:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12258844)
A) that's complete bullshit
B) it's irrelevant anyway since the UK is leaving.



You're the one making the claim, the burden of proof is squarely on you. It's not our fault you have none.

So....to recap....if I express an opinion I have to post proof.

But you Remainers can whine and moan and scaremonger your opinions with no proof?

Have I got that right? Is that how you all think it works lol?

Bipat May 23rd 2017 9:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12258978)
Well, Ryanair and EasyJet are saying the same thing. OK, carriers like BA are intercontinental, but they do have European flights, and they'll be affected too.

British based airlines warned they 'must move to EU after Brexit or lose major routes'

I'm surprised you wouldn't know this. It's just another of the many Brexit consequences. Public knowledge.

I was questioning your reference to flights to "third world" countries would be "fewer and expensive". (Never use BA-- use those dreadful foreign airlines --far more efficient. :lol:)

SultanOfSwing May 23rd 2017 9:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lgm1963 (Post 12258991)
So....to recap....if I express an opinion I have to post proof.

But you Remainers can whine and moan and scaremonger your opinions with no proof?

Have I got that right? Is that how you all think it works lol?

You don't have to, but you were asked to provide citation for a claim you made and then you immediately started projecting about Remain this and Remain that when not one single person was attempting to make any kind of a claim regarding Remain whatsoever.

If you can't back your statements up, I don't care, but don't spit the dummy when you're asked to do so either.

Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

lgm1963 May 23rd 2017 9:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12259001)
You don't have to, but you were asked to provide citation for a claim you made and then you immediately started projecting about Remain this and Remain that when not one single person was attempting to make any kind of a claim regarding Remain whatsoever.

If you can't back your statements up, I don't care, but don't spit the dummy when you're asked to do so either.

Does it hurt to be as stupid as you are?

Oh it's certainly not stupid to refuse to do as another idiot asks. Especially the sort of idiot that can't even see that they do exactly as they criticise someone else for doing.

I suppose you are all high and mighty now someone has taken the mantle of bombing Manchester buildings away from your friends and neighbours?

la mancha May 23rd 2017 9:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Re airlines post-brexit, not to have an agreement in place would be a disaster for everyone. I took some snippets from some aviation reports.

'The UK is currently by far the most significant contributor of air passenger traffic within the EU. UK passengers account for around one third of all intra-EU journeys, and around one quarter of all journeys from the EU to third countries. UK passengers make a significant contribution to the EU economy as tourists (notably in Mediterranean destinations) facilitated by unfettered air access – with the travel balance heavily outbound, with around 54 million UK-to-EU round trips in 2015, compared with 26 million EU-to-UK round trip.'

'If the UK loses automatic rights to fly to the EU it is important to note that these rights are reciprocal and ECAA carriers would lose their automatic rights to fly to the UK.'

'The most important point for all sides to remember is that less competitive aviation markets would mean higher ticket prices for all passengers, not just the British, further reducing demand and connectivity – creating a feedback loop that would damage the European economy as a whole.'

These are not my words.


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