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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Fredbargate Aug 20th 2016 7:06 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12030436)

Many jobs (millions?) in Britain rely on exports to the EU. An equal number of jobs across the EU, and in particular the Eurozone, rely on exports to the UK. How will a bad Brexit affect European nations’ exports to the UK? How will those citizens affected by new redundancies in Eurozone nations react because of a downturn in exports to Britain?

la mancha Please excuse me for trimming your post to highlight the area I am responding to.

German carmaker Opel plans to cut its workers' hours this year because it expects Brexit to hurt its UK sales.

A spokesman for Opel said about 5,000 workers at its Ruesselsheim and Eisenach factories would be affected. Opel is owned by US car giant GM.

The UK is the biggest market for Opel's Insignia and Corsa models.


Brexit pushes Opel to cut staff hours in Germany - BBC News

TGA Aug 20th 2016 7:19 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12030678)
la mancha Please excuse me for trimming your post to highlight the area I am responding to.

German carmaker Opel plans to cut its workers' hours this year because it expects Brexit to hurt its UK sales.

A spokesman for Opel said about 5,000 workers at its Ruesselsheim and Eisenach factories would be affected. Opel is owned by US car giant GM.

The UK is the biggest market for Opel's Insignia and Corsa models.


Brexit pushes Opel to cut staff hours in Germany - BBC News

Which is why trade agreements are important all round

DaveLovesDee Aug 20th 2016 7:42 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12030016)
Thanks for that Eric.

Actually it is not so far off the mark, and certainly much closer the truth than the nonsense we've heard from the remainiacs most of whom still don't seem to have a clue what the main issues actually were.

Here's one for Ami.
I notice she's become a big fan of the express lately, posting so many of its comments and headlines. ;)

Italian referendum triggers SHOCK ALARMS across USA and Europe | World | News | Daily Express


Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 12030524)
Italian referendum triggers SHOCK ALARMS across USA and Europe | World | News | Daily Express
"The main proposal of the referendum would be to reform the senate to make it more efficient, but there are concerns it could be used by a fed up Italian electorate to voice their frustrations with Brussels.
Mr Renzi has said that he will resign if the vote goes against him, with the eurosceptic Five Star movement riding high in the polls and ready to pounce at a snap General Election
."

The greatest effect of the Brexit vote might be the encouragement it gives to similar protest-votes in other EU members.

Dick already posted that yesterday.

Red Eric Aug 20th 2016 7:50 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12030436)
You have not answered my comments on less funding going into the EU in the case of a recession across Europe and a downturn in individual nations’ wealth as a result of a bad Brexit, so starving nations like Poland and Spain of much needed EU funding for their public services. What are your thoughts on that?

EU funding for public services? That's a new one on me - unless you're talking about infrastructure projects but that would be a very misleading way of putting it. If so, I guess what they'd do is what they've always done when they don't have the funds required (the funding for such projects being jointly contributed to by the EU and the member state) ie postpone new projects until such time as they do, or cancel them altogether.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12030436)
In the case of a bad Brexit there will be new unemployment in the UK. EU migrant workers will leave. Where do you think they will go? Polish workers will not go back to Poland as there is still a lot of unemployment there and they also have an influx of cheap Ukranian workers, and have had for some time. They will go to France, maybe, but France also has an unemployment problem and will not take too kindly a new influx of Polish workers seeking work. The answer is to go to Germany to find work. With freedom of movement will Germany be able to absorb them and will it cause animosity amongst Germans?

With a bad Brexit and a recession throughout Europe where will new EU migrant workers go to find work? Not to the UK, but to Germany. With freedom of movement how many more can Germany take in?

I can't recall hearing of any animosity in France or in Germany about freedom of movement of EU workers. I expect they'll just continue to absorb as many migrant workers as there are jobs for and that those who can't find work will move on or back to where they came from, as is the norm across the EU.

jimenato Aug 20th 2016 7:51 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12030436)
I have always maintained I would like to see the UK leave the EU with an amicable agreement. I have always said that if Brexit means the UK goes into long-term recession and unemployment rises this will also pull in European nations and will have a devastating effect on those Eurozone economies which are still struggling with the crisis of eight years ago. I have always said there has to be a compromise, or trade-offs, to reach that amicable agreement, not only for the good of all nations but for the good of 500 million people. Does that answer your question?

You say Britain needs Europe more than Europe needs Britain. Once again you still do not understand the damage that European nations will suffer with a bad Brexit. We need each other equally to reach an amicable solution. Do not confuse the EU with Europe. European nations do need Britain. Whether the EU does is another matter but they will not count when the ministers of European nations come to vote on the intricacies of Brexit.

Your post 1698 says nothing new. But I did not see any mention of the damage that could be caused to European nations in that post, because in the case of a bad Brexit damage there most certainly will be, especially across the Eurozone. Britain will be given a special status when leaving the EU simply because if it is not an amicable divorce the result will be too terrifying to contemplate, especially for the indebted Eurozone nations. You have failed to answer my previous posts on the consequences for the Eurozone of the UK going into long-term recession because of a bad Brexit. What are your thoughts on that?

You have not answered my comments on less funding going into the EU in the case of a recession across Europe and a downturn in individual nations’ wealth as a result of a bad Brexit, so starving nations like Poland and Spain of much needed EU funding for their public services. What are your thoughts on that?

In the case of a bad Brexit there will be new unemployment in the UK. EU migrant workers will leave. Where do you think they will go? Polish workers will not go back to Poland as there is still a lot of unemployment there and they also have an influx of cheap Ukranian workers, and have had for some time. They will go to France, maybe, but France also has an unemployment problem and will not take too kindly a new influx of Polish workers seeking work. The answer is to go to Germany to find work. With freedom of movement will Germany be able to absorb them and will it cause animosity amongst Germans?

With a bad Brexit and a recession throughout Europe where will new EU migrant workers go to find work? Not to the UK, but to Germany. With freedom of movement how many more can Germany take in?

With a bad Brexit how many EU migrant workers in the UK will simply decide they have had enough and go back to their native country, so adding another burden to their home nation’s already strained public services, with cuts in EU funding for these services and even more unemployment. What are your thoughts on that?

Many jobs (millions?) in Britain rely on exports to the EU. An equal number of jobs across the EU, and in particular the Eurozone, rely on exports to the UK. How will a bad Brexit affect European nations’ exports to the UK? How will those citizens affected by new redundancies in Eurozone nations react because of a downturn in exports to Britain?

There are so many factors involved for both sides but to think there is nothing over that EU border and we will fall off the edge of the Earth when we cross it is stupid.

Your take is from the UK’s side but I like to look at all sides. Brexit is not only about money and trade: it is also about individual nations and people. That is why there will be trade-offs to reach an amicable solution.

Your enthusiasm on how things will be for the UK with a bad Brexit, as in your comment, ‘A lot of people love living in the channel islands, and Britain will be the biggest among them. What's wrong with that?’ completely fails to take into account the catastrophe awaiting the EU, and Eurozone nations in particular, if that happens. Be careful what you wish for.

You, more than anyone else on BE, have a special zeal (I don't know why) to see the worse for the UK. Tell me if I am wrong? Tell me you want to see a successful Brexit for the UK. Tell me you want to see a successful EU and UK work together for an amicable result for both sides to go on working side by side with the UK out of the Union so that all Europeans can benefit.

Your stupidity in thinking the UK will commit economic suicide and at the same time your naivety in not coming to terms with the damage that will cause throughout Europe portrays your posts as senseless.

Your post paints a black picture of the possible consequences of the Brexit vote. Just don't lose sight of the fact that all of this is the fault of those who voted to leave. Don't try to blame anyone else.

Could you describe what you mean by 'successful Brexit'.

amideislas Aug 20th 2016 7:54 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I find it rather interesting that Opel seems to feel not that brexit will create barriers to imports to the UK, but rather, seems to acknowledge that brexit will cause UK demand to weaken (presumably due to declining economy). Opel (and Vauxhall) haven't exactly been enjoying any great sales boom anyway. In fact, they've been struggling globally for some time.

Even in the event of a "hard" brexit, I can't imagine any actual barriers to EU exports to the UK, unless the UK chose to impose disproprtionate tariffs or ban European imports altogether, neither of which would benefit the UK at all, and only serve to raise prices on the imported goods it depends on. The problem for the UK is more likely that consumer spending will fall, and therefore, demand.

Certainly that will impact Europe. But Europe is a larger economy that's very export driven, so if exports to the UK fall a bit, at least Europe has other options. And as the value of the Euro weakens against the dollar, that will only make European exports more attractive.

Unfortunately, the UK doesn't have any significant exports to make up the difference. And frankly, Europe is hardly dependent on UK imports (except perhaps one very special UK export, which appears to be moving across the channel anyway), so it won't likely matter all that much.

European cities are, however, licking their chops at the prospect of the UK's single largest and most taxed export moving HQ to the eurozone due to the uncertainty of the paradox the UK faces.


Will Brexit deal suit the City of London? - BBC News



The financial services industry employs more than two million people in this country and it pays more in taxes to the government than any other sector of the economy. It is therefore an industry that other rival financial centres would like to get their hands on - places such as Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam, for instance.

amideislas Aug 20th 2016 8:34 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12030693)
Dick already posted that yesterday.

Not to mention it's equally as true as the imminent European nuclear war shocker.

amideislas Aug 20th 2016 9:06 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Anyway, here's a more typical European view of brexit:

So What if the British Are Leaving? - Spiegel Online
The consequences of Brexit are going to be painful for Britain. But for the EU, there are plenty of advantages.


The fall of the British pound is the first warning sign, and we will soon hear about major corporations pulling their headquarters out of London and moving to places like Frankfurt.

If the British opt for the Norwegian model, they will continue to pay billions in contributions to the EU without having a say in shaping the rules of the single market. It is doubtful whether this will heighten the appeal of an exit for other countries. Of course, this presupposes that EU negotiators take as tough a stance against London as they have promised.

A second benefit is that the British can now no longer block legislation when Europeans decide to join forces in areas where they are stronger together. The economic union must finally become reality so that national decisions can no longer jeopardize the common currency. The euro zone needs a unified economic government and a European finance minister commanding an independent budget.
It is an interesting observation that Europeans have more or less brushed it off. However, Britain seems to be the one country still doing the most talking about brexit nowadays. Whether fear of it, or fear of it not happening. In any case, fear.

But that's what the entire campaign was all about, wasn't it? I suppose it could be argued that you get what you vote for.

Wol Aug 20th 2016 10:02 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12030721)
Anyway, here's a more typical European view of brexit:

So What if the British Are Leaving? - Spiegel Online
The consequences of Brexit are going to be painful for Britain. But for the EU, there are plenty of advantages.

It is an interesting observation that Europeans have more or less brushed it off. However, Britain seems to be the one country still doing the most talking about brexit nowadays. Whether fear of it, or fear of it not happening. In any case, fear.

But that's what the entire campaign was all about, wasn't it? I suppose it could be argued that you get what you vote for.

And these arguments don't arouse just the teeniest suspicion that the EU monolithic attitudes are at the heart of the leave vote?

amideislas Aug 20th 2016 10:07 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12030745)
And these arguments don't arouse just the teeniest suspicion that the EU monolithic attitudes are at the heart of the leave vote?

No, I sense its more like the rolleyes that people do when a Trump press conference comes on TV. Or when a child goes into a temper tantrum. Or when the front page of the daily express proclaims European nuclear war is imminent. Good job we left. Wouldn't wanna get blown to bits like them foreigners.

Former Lancastrian Aug 20th 2016 10:15 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12030678)
la mancha Please excuse me for trimming your post to highlight the area I am responding to.

German carmaker Opel plans to cut its workers' hours this year because it expects Brexit to hurt its UK sales.

A spokesman for Opel said about 5,000 workers at its Ruesselsheim and Eisenach factories would be affected. Opel is owned by US car giant GM.

The UK is the biggest market for Opel's Insignia and Corsa models.


Brexit pushes Opel to cut staff hours in Germany - BBC News

Im confused did those Brexiters also vote to stop buying Opel vehicles?
I guess we should also be looking for similar announcements from Mercedes, Audi, VW and BMW as well. You honestly believe the UK will slap import tariffs on vehicles imported to the UK or people will stop buying them?
This is one of those stories used to say that Brexit was wrong when it really has nothing to do with Brexit.
Lets just say article 50 had been triggered and the UK has left the EU. No import taxes have been introduced and they still sell the same amount of vehicles and the price remains the same would they still reduce the workers hours?
Im not a Brexiter or a Remainer either.

Gordon Barlow Aug 20th 2016 1:59 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12030693)
Dick already posted that yesterday.

Whoops. Apologies to Dick.

Dick Dasterdly Aug 20th 2016 2:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Forget the express,

This from the Editor of the Guardian.....



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-project-fear


"Brexit Armageddon was a terrifying vision - but IT SIMPLY HASNT HAPPENED !"

Well worth a read.

jimenato Aug 20th 2016 3:17 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12030860)
Forget the express,

This from the Editor of the Guardian.....



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-project-fear


"Brexit Armageddon was a terrifying vision - but IT SIMPLY HASNT HAPPENED !"

Well worth a read.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/1yLdy3t1xr5Bu/200_s.gif

DaveLovesDee Aug 20th 2016 3:27 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12030860)
Forget the express,

This from the Editor of the Guardian.....



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-project-fear


"Brexit Armageddon was a terrifying vision - but IT SIMPLY HASNT HAPPENED !"

Well worth a read.

Correct! Brexit hasn't happened.


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