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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Bipat Apr 21st 2017 11:35 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12234679)
Britain warned that Brexit will be vetoed unless the rights of EU citizens in the UK are protected.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-dea...225556034.html

The Brexit DEAL not Brexit!!

Twice Mr Tajani said that Mrs May and himself were in agreement on this.

I listened and thought that the speech was quite positive.

Bipat Apr 21st 2017 11:44 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12234672)
Yes, there is! The same message the anti-EU brigade has been ignoring for the last 40+ years. That when a vote doesn't go your way, it doesn't mean it's over.

The EU has done a massive amount of good for all EU countries (Greece wasn't solely the EU's fault), and while there are things that need reforming, leaving the EU isn't the way to guide it in the right direction.

The UK could have had much more influence in the EU but chose to take as many opt-outs as they could. I'd suggest that was partly because although the UK wanted to be in the EU, they also didn't want to seen to be too close in case it disrupted the 'special relationship' with the US. Though the US also wanted us in the EU so they had a friendly face at the table who could represent the interests behind the scenes.

Anti-EU brigade---for the last 40+ years? 24 years since founding of the EU in 1993!
Being one of twenty-eight doesn't give much chance for"reforming" or "guiding"!.

DaveLovesDee Apr 21st 2017 11:44 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12234686)
The Brexit DEAL not Brexit!!

Twice Mr Tajani said that Mrs May and himself were in agreement on this.

I listened and thought that the speech was quite positive.

Of course May's in agreement. If the EU vetoes any deal, then May gets the 'no deal is better than a bad deal', and can blame the EU for it.

mikelincs Apr 21st 2017 11:52 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12234693)
Of course May's in agreement. If the EU vetoes any deal, then May gets the 'no deal is better than a bad deal', and can blame the EU for it.

I notice that immigration limits have been dropped in the Tory manifesto for the General election, is this paving the way for freedom of movement and the free trade deal being part of Brexit?

EMR Apr 21st 2017 12:05 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12234698)
I notice that immigration limits have been dropped in the Tory manifesto for the General election, is this paving the way for freedom of movement and the free trade deal being part of Brexit?

It's a con,May can point to a reduction in numbers, students no longer included in the calculation as proof brexit is working.
Of course when home secretary she was against this change in policy.
As many of us have always suggested it is the UK economy that drives immigration, if it does well we need migrant labour unskilled and skilled.
So the underlying, non student figures will not show any significant changes, hence the dropping of an immigration target.

Bipat Apr 21st 2017 12:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by mikelincs (Post 12234698)
I notice that immigration limits have been dropped in the Tory manifesto for the General election, is this paving the way for freedom of movement and the free trade deal being part of Brexit?

Freedom of movement from where?
The figure in the last manifesto was unrealistic as regards needs and unattainable.

With immigration post Brexit regardless of nationality, a key point for Brexit, I would have thought giving any figure was foolish as it will be flexible according to the skill needs at any one time.

EMR Apr 21st 2017 12:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12234709)
Freedom of movement from where?
The figure in the last manifesto was unrealistic as regards needs and unattainable.

With immigration post Brexit regardless of nationality, a key point for Brexit, I would have thought giving any figure was foolish as it will be flexible according to the skill needs at any one time.

We agree, it is the needs of the UK economy that comes first above outdated political and nationalistic views.

amideislas Apr 21st 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
It's easy to whinge about foreigners as long as you can afford the new range rover and the 60" telly. But when that starts to sting, immigration will be the lesser of the "FURY and OUTRAGE".

The immigration topic is already taking 2nd seat to the economy anyway. 6 mos. ago, it was all the rage, but now it's actually becoming a somewhat cheeky argument. And the messaging from #10 is clearly intended to soften the tabloid "fear and loathing" narratives.

I suspect all the latest political maneuvering has much to do with the Brexit research that the government was forced to conduct since the referendum. I strongly suspect they must now possess a clearer understanding of what Brexit really means. It never was "pretty", but now they own it, and can't just dismiss it as "fearmongering".

We shall see, but I'm beginning to suspect that Brexit might not mean Brexit after all. It's a long time till 2019, and by then, the mood will likely be more of just plain exhaustion. Get it over with, please, no matter what you have to do.

And frankly, that may not necessarily be a good thing. For better or for worse, over the long-haul, the EU is probably better off without an adversarial member who's inherently fearful of it.

la mancha Apr 21st 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12234664)
Meanwhile, it seems May called the snap elections with little time to spare:

Brexit latest: Retail sales volumes fall at fastest quarterly rate in seven years

Sales were down 1.4 per cent, the biggest decline since the first quarter of 2010 when they fell 2 per cent

Hopefully, it won't go too far before June. I suppose they could always have the BoE dump even more money into the economy to prop it up until they've won the elections.

Looking at those figures I see we had declining sales figures in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. What was the excuse then, when we were fully in the EU with no Brexit in sight? I have lived through two recessions and the financial crash, all within the EU. Now we have a small drop in productivity and sales figures and it is all about Brexit.

Guess what? They declined in March 2016 as well. Was that Brexit? The anti-Brexit hysteria on here and in the rest of the UK is now verging on the absurd.

UK retail figures disappoint in March, as sales decline 1.3%

Maybe the late Easter had something to do with it this year?

Lion in Winter Apr 21st 2017 1:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12234758)
It's easy to whinge about foreigners as long as you can afford the new range rover and the 60" telly. But when that starts to sting, immigration will be the lesser of the "FURY and OUTRAGE".

The immigration topic is already taking 2nd seat to the economy anyway. 6 mos. ago, it was all the rage, but now it's actually becoming a somewhat cheeky argument. And the messaging from #10 is clearly intended to soften the tabloid "fear and loathing" narratives.

I suspect all the latest political maneuvering has much to do with the Brexit research that the government was forced to conduct since the referendum. I strongly suspect they must now possess a clearer understanding of what Brexit really means. It never was "pretty", but now they own it, and can't just dismiss it as "fearmongering".

We shall see, but I'm beginning to suspect that Brexit might not mean Brexit after all. It's a long time till 2019, and by then, the mood will likely be more of just plain exhaustion. Get it over with, please, no matter what you have to do.


"Fear of foreigners" was to whip up a popular head of steam for the leave vote. Heavily used by Farage and his ilk, along with the tabloids, it worked splendidly.

But it was always about the money for those at the top, in or out of the EU. The top 2% will preserve their interests, come what may. It will be presented as "stability", etc., and there will be a few sops thrown for the "control our borders" crowd, and the rest of us will have to deal with whatever the reality of Brexit brings.

la mancha Apr 21st 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12234758)
It's easy to whinge about foreigners as long as you can afford the new range rover and the 60" telly. But when that starts to sting, immigration will be the lesser of the "FURY and OUTRAGE".

The immigration topic is already taking 2nd seat to the economy anyway. 6 mos. ago, it was all the rage, but now it's actually becoming a somewhat cheeky argument. And the messaging from #10 is clearly intended to soften the tabloid "fear and loathing" narratives.

I suspect all the latest political maneuvering has much to do with the Brexit research that the government was forced to conduct since the referendum. I strongly suspect they must now possess a clearer understanding of what Brexit really means. It never was "pretty", but now they own it, and can't just dismiss it as "fearmongering".

We shall see, but I'm beginning to suspect that Brexit might not mean Brexit after all. It's a long time till 2019, and by then, the mood will likely be more of just plain exhaustion. Get it over with, please, no matter what you have to do.

Who is she talking about?

EMR Apr 21st 2017 1:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12234766)
Looking at those figures I see we had declining sales figures in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. What was the excuse then, when we were fully in the EU with no Brexit in sight? I have lived through two recessions and the financial crash, all within the EU. Now we have a small drop in productivity and sales figures and it is all about Brexit.

Guess what? They declined in March 2016 as well. Was that Brexit? The anti-Brexit hysteria on here and in the rest of the UK is now verging on the absurd.

UK retail figures disappoint in March, as sales decline 1.3%

Maybe the late Easter had something to do with it this year?

So nothing to do with rising prices then affecting those you claim to represent.

amideislas Apr 21st 2017 1:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Sorry, forgot that the UK is impoverished.

Or is it "booming" today?

I reckon it doesn't really matter. Both are good arguments for Brexit.

la mancha Apr 21st 2017 2:15 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12234784)
Sorry, forgot that the UK is impoverished.

Or is it "booming" today?

I reckon it doesn't really matter. Both are good arguments for Brexit.

Still doesn't answer my question.

la mancha Apr 21st 2017 2:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12234779)
So nothing to do with rising prices then affecting those you claim to represent.

UK price rises for the last thirty years, well before Brexit. What was the excuse then?

How prices changed over 30 years - Telegraph


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