British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Wol Aug 18th 2016 11:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12029266)
Yes, those Roman foreigners and those French foreigners who invaded our shores throughout history were eagerly accepted by the Brits of those times.

As for Britain being 'full'.

European population densities

While there are many countries with lower population densities in Europe, there are also many with higher densities.

In 2012, it was calculated that only "6.8% of the UK's land area is now classified as urban" (a definition that includes rural development and roads, by the way).

Argument from a false premise.

Just because some other countries have a higher density has no bearing on the UK - it's their problem - and in fact their populations are beginning to think about it.

johnwoo Aug 18th 2016 11:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
A question for the Brexiteers. How do you think Brexit will benefit you personally?

I'm asking as an slightly interested bystander. Slightly interested because it has negatively affected my UK pension.

Dick Dasterdly Aug 18th 2016 11:38 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12029825)
Argument from a false premise.

Just because some other countries have a higher density has no bearing on the UK - it's their problem - and in fact their populations are beginning to think about it.

Indeed a very false premise, unless dld was there at the time and saw it all happen. History books for what they are worth certainly don't describe it that way.
Having seen the damage that the EU has allowed to occur and to a great degree inflicted upon itself, it is now up to us to take care of our own country.

I see even the so called financial experts such as Moodies are now admitting they got their post Brexit forecasts totally wrong and the future now looks a great deal brighter than the usual doom and gloom merchants expected, or indeed many incl some on here, still appear to wish for them to be. ;)

Wol Aug 19th 2016 1:31 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12029839)
I see even the so called financial experts such as Moodies are now admitting they got their post Brexit forecasts totally wrong and the future now looks a great deal brighter than the usual doom and gloom merchants expected, or indeed many incl some on here, still appear to wish for them to be. ;)

Interestingly there's an article in today's DT by an economist:

Dismal scientists need some humility

Extracts:

>>love economists, I really do. I adored economics at school, spent five years studying the subject at university and have written about the economy, among other topics, for my entire professional career. I like hanging out with dismal scientists.<<

and:

>>Anybody who has followed economic forecasts closely over the past 15 years knows full well how wrong the consensus almost invariably turns out to be – not surprisingly, as it is a case of predicting the unpredictable. The average economist always gets turning points in the business cycle wrong, is too optimistic at the height of a boom and too pessimistic at the trough of a recession. Their predictions about unemployment, wage growth, productivity, central bank and market interest rates and inflation have all been drastically off the mark in recent years. This is as true of City forecasters as it has been of the bank of England and official bodies. Most damaging of all was all the nonsense about double or triple-dip recession a few years ago, a pathology compounded by data that keeps being revised.<<

TGA Aug 19th 2016 4:52 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12029748)
I have to pull you up on this. The doom and gloom was predicted not after the UK left the EU but the day after the referendum itself. It did not happen.

Over 10,000 people polled and over 30% of them did not realise that Britain is still in the EU? Yeh, okay…

No one is saying that Brexit will be easy but I still say, until you can give evidence to the contrary, if it is a hard Brexit the rest of the EU comes down with us.

Let me put you right: the whole of the EU, especially the crippled and indebted Eurozone, will have a massive problem if Brexit does not work out satisfactory for everyone concerned. Britain does not ask for parting gifts: in fact we are net contributors to the poorer nations, Spain included, and it will be the EU’s problem when we stop contributing. Things will get even worse for the EU, and especially the Eurozone if, following an unacceptable Brexit, the UK goes into long-term and deep recession because that will pull in many European nations which eight years on are still in crisis mode. Since contributions are based on a nation’s growth, or income, there will most certainly be cutbacks in EU funding for poorer nations that will adversely affect the local population. This will affect funding for local governments and schools and hospitals, which are not doing too well in Spain at the moment, so I am reading, so, yes, it is not only the UK’s problem but the EU’s as well. I am mentioning Spain because I read the Spanish news and they are not doing too well politically at the moment.

Going back a few posts, Britain does not ask for freebies: we always pay our way, and some, as reflected in our 12 billion International Aid budget, which is the highest in Europe and only second worldwide to the US. It is the poorer EU nations that are always holding out a hand for freebies, and net contributors such as the UK who give.

May said Brexit means Brexit. If it does not she will be gone long before 2020.

:goodpost:

TGA Aug 19th 2016 5:06 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by johnwoo (Post 12029837)
A question for the Brexiteers. How do you think Brexit will benefit you personally?

I'm asking as an slightly interested bystander. Slightly interested because it has negatively affected my UK pension.

Inflation will raise and my pocket money wont go as far by a tiny amount. But thats already counteracted by a nice pay rise and another soon.
House prices will correct so my kids have a better chance of getting on the housing ladder.
I will get more return on selling my lovely Marbella golf side apartment at los Pinos del Aloha Golf (PM for details;))
I will have satisfaction knowing we won't be bound by ridiculous eu directives.
I like to watch the remainiacs petulant reaction to the whole thing:rofl:
I think brexit will bring a more cohesive Britain, Island nations have much more sense of pride that continental clumps.

apart from that not much really life will go on pretty much as before, we will just be independent. People just like independence, ask the Jocks.

mfesharne Aug 19th 2016 6:43 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Originally Posted by johnwoo
"A question for the Brexiteers. How do you think Brexit will benefit you personally?

I'm asking as an slightly interested bystander. Slightly interested because it has negatively affected my UK pension."

I'm not sure it'll benefit me personally & rather suspect it might possibly cause me some inconvenience but I do think it'll make for a better, safer & more secure UK for my loved ones (esp) the younger generation who live over there.

Interestingly...... Much earlier in this thread, I asked the Remainiacs what it was about the EU that they liked....... (IIRC) two answered & neither answer had anything to do with EU membership.

One suggested what she liked about the EU was the fact it gave UN protection & of course the two things aren't connected. :(

Red Eric Aug 19th 2016 8:15 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12029748)
I have to pull you up on this. The doom and gloom was predicted not after the UK left the EU but the day after the referendum itself. It did not happen.

As usual, I am completely at odds with your assessment. What I recall is that every warning of possible negative outcomes, instead of being treated as plausible and worthy of consideration, was greeted by Leavers with accusations of "Project Fear", that it was threats and lies and that it was predicting "Armageddon" - all of which, it now seems, the Leavers took to mean wouldn't happen at all if it didn't happen the instant the referendum result was announced.

Most of the Remainer posters on the various threads here on BE pointed out on numerous occasions that what was being talked about was likely to manifest itself over a period of years and would depend anyway on to what extent Brexit "means Brexit". Leavers were presumably always too busy avoiding the question of what that meant exactly or banging on about aspects of immigration and asylum which have nothing to do with EU membership (as they will be finding out in due course) to be bothered reading those comments.

I'm certainly not expecting anything to change too drastically until after Article 50 has been triggered at the very earliest, so no Armageddon the instant it's been announced. In fact no Armageddon at all - just a long period of uncertainty and loss of confidence which I think will adversely affect the UK economy. And I don't expect the negotiations with the EU about the terms of the exit to be quick or easy - I think they'll drag on considerably longer than the 2 years initially provided for in the legislation and there'll be plenty of brinksmanship and "deadlines" set and broken. And I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunity for criticism of the way the EU conducts itself along the way.

I came across this the other day about the complexity of what lies ahead - I thought it an interesting summary https://www.theguardian.com/business...g-back-control

Red Eric Aug 19th 2016 8:20 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by johnwoo (Post 12029837)
A question for the Brexiteers. How do you think Brexit will benefit you personally?

I'm asking as an slightly interested bystander. Slightly interested because it has negatively affected my UK pension.

It's well-known that all Remainiacs voted the way they did out of sheer greed and for motives of personal gain whereas all Leavers voted selflessly for the good of their country despite knowing full well that they personally would be a lot worse off. FACT.

Editha Aug 19th 2016 9:23 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by johnwoo (Post 12029837)
A question for the Brexiteers. How do you think Brexit will benefit you personally?

I'm asking as an slightly interested bystander. Slightly interested because it has negatively affected my UK pension.

I'll answer the question, even though I am a Remainer.

The immediate effect of the Brexit vote is from the fall in the pound. My husband's Canadian pension is worth more, but we also spend a significant amount of time in Europe, not just travelling, but for research, so those trips will become more expensive.

Of more importance to pensioners like ourselves, in the long term, inflation plus the low interest rates on savings will impact on our income and cost of living here in the UK. I also foresee that the government will have to abandon the 'triple lock' on state pensions.

My husband is a part-time university lecturer. Many of his students are from the EU and many of his UK students spend part of their studies in another EU country. His EU students are already counted as 'immigrants' for the purpose of statistics, something that Theresa May, as Home Secretary, refused to change; so they are counted in the number of net immigrants the government wishes to reduce by two thirds.

At the moment it is difficult to say how exactly Brexit will affect my husband's work as a lecturer, but he must expect fewer European students, and there will possibly also be a reduction in UK students in his subject, as the possibility of Erasmus grants dry up.

I am carer for my 90 year old mother. There is already a 'care crisis' in the UK's social care, caused by an ageing population and inflation in the cost of care. This is likely to be exacerbated both by the economic decline caused by Brexit, which will reduce the amount of public money available, and by any curb on immigration which will affect the number of carers willing to work for low wages.

Since returning to the UK from Canada two years ago, I've had to use NHS services rather more than I anticipated. I've had excellent treatment, often by EU nationals. But, local hospital services are being cut back, not just due to lack of funds, but also by difficulty in recruitment. Currently I'm having to spend one day a week travelling 65 miles and back, taking my mother to the nearest hospital with an ENT department, because the hospital 20 miles away hasn't been able to recruit an ENT consultant to replace the one who retired. Brexit is going to exacerbate the NHS staffing problem, as it becomes more difficult to recruit from overseas.

Dick Dasterdly Aug 19th 2016 9:28 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12029992)
It's well-known that all Remainiacs voted the way they did out of sheer greed and for motives of personal gain whereas all Leavers voted selflessly for the good of their country despite knowing full well that they personally would be a lot worse off. FACT.

Thanks for that Eric.

Actually it is not so far off the mark, and certainly much closer the truth than the nonsense we've heard from the remainiacs most of whom still don't seem to have a clue what the main issues actually were.

Here's one for Ami.
I notice she's become a big fan of the express lately, posting so many of its comments and headlines. ;)

Italian referendum triggers SHOCK ALARMS across USA and Europe | World | News | Daily Express

Dick Dasterdly Aug 19th 2016 9:38 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Editha (Post 12030015)
I'll answer the question, even though I am a Remainer.

The immediate effect of the Brexit vote is from the fall in the pound. My husband's Canadian pension is worth more, but we also spend a significant amount of time in Europe, not just travelling, but for research, so those trips will become more expensive.

Of more importance to pensioners like ourselves, in the long term, inflation plus the low interest rates on savings will impact on our income and cost of living here in the UK. I also foresee that the government will have to abandon the 'triple lock' on state pensions.

My husband is a part-time university lecturer. Many of his students are from the EU and many of his UK students spend part of their studies in another EU country. His EU students are already counted as 'immigrants' for the purpose of statistics, something that Theresa May, as Home Secretary, refused to change; so they are counted in the number of net immigrants the government wishes to reduce by two thirds.

At the moment it is difficult to say how exactly Brexit will affect my husband's work as a lecturer, but he must expect fewer European students, and there will possibly also be a reduction in UK students in his subject, as the possibility of Erasmus grants dry up.

I am carer for my 90 year old mother. There is already a 'care crisis' in the UK's social care, caused by an ageing population and inflation in the cost of care. This is likely to be exacerbated both by the economic decline caused by Brexit, which will reduce the amount of public money available, and by any curb on immigration which will affect the number of carers willing to work for low wages.

Since returning to the UK from Canada two years ago, I've had to use NHS services rather more than I anticipated. I've had excellent treatment, often by EU nationals. But, local hospital services are being cut back, not just due to lack of funds, but also by difficulty in recruitment. Currently I'm having to spend one day a week travelling 65 miles and back, taking my mother to the nearest hospital with an ENT department, because the hospital 20 miles away hasn't been able to recruit an ENT consultant to replace the one who retired. Brexit is going to exacerbate the NHS staffing problem, as it becomes more difficult to recruit from overseas.

Just the opposite Editha.

It should soon be much easier to recruit the very best staff on a Global basis, many of whom already speak perfect English, which is a big plus.

There has been some serious concern in the NHS recently regarding staff recruited from within the EU, because their English does not reach a satisfactory standard in many cases, putting patients at risk.

Once recruited they have to be accepted without further language checks other than those which have met EU requirements and are clearly not satisfactory for the critical work they have to carry out.

Bipat Aug 19th 2016 9:41 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Editha (Post 12030015)
I'll answer the question, even though I am a Remainer.

The immediate effect of the Brexit vote is from the fall in the pound. My husband's Canadian pension is worth more, but we also spend a significant amount of time in Europe, not just travelling, but for research, so those trips will become more expensive.

Of more importance to pensioners like ourselves, in the long term, inflation plus the low interest rates on savings will impact on our income and cost of living here in the UK. I also foresee that the government will have to abandon the 'triple lock' on state pensions.

My husband is a part-time university lecturer. Many of his students are from the EU and many of his UK students spend part of their studies in another EU country. His EU students are already counted as 'immigrants' for the purpose of statistics, something that Theresa May, as Home Secretary, refused to change; so they are counted in the number of net immigrants the government wishes to reduce by two thirds.

At the moment it is difficult to say how exactly Brexit will affect my husband's work as a lecturer, but he must expect fewer European students, and there will possibly also be a reduction in UK students in his subject, as the possibility of Erasmus grants dry up.

I am carer for my 90 year old mother. There is already a 'care crisis' in the UK's social care, caused by an ageing population and inflation in the cost of care. This is likely to be exacerbated both by the economic decline caused by Brexit, which will reduce the amount of public money available, and by any curb on immigration which will affect the number of carers willing to work for low wages.

Since returning to the UK from Canada two years ago, I've had to use NHS services rather more than I anticipated. I've had excellent treatment, often by EU nationals. But, local hospital services are being cut back, not just due to lack of funds, but also by difficulty in recruitment. Currently I'm having to spend one day a week travelling 65 miles and back, taking my mother to the nearest hospital with an ENT department, because the hospital 20 miles away hasn't been able to recruit an ENT consultant to replace the one who retired. Brexit is going to exacerbate the NHS staffing problem, as it becomes more difficult to recruit from overseas.

The majority of migrant-origin medical and nursing staff in the NHS are from non-EU countries. Non-EU staff were vitally important in the setting up of the NHS.

Brexit will allow non-EU and EU migrants to be admitted on an equal basis. Most of "overseas" is not in the EU.

Red Eric Aug 19th 2016 10:26 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12030021)
It should soon be much easier to recruit the very best staff on a Global basis, many of whom already speak perfect English, which is a big plus.

There has been some serious concern in the NHS recently regarding staff recruited from within the EU, because their English does not reach a satisfactory standard in many cases, putting patients at risk.

Once recruited they have to be accepted without further language checks other than those which have met EU requirements and are clearly not satisfactory for the critical work they have to carry out.

The rise in recruitment of EU nationals to the NHS is almost entirely due to the difficulties created by the government with regard to recruitment of non-EU nationals. In other words, nothing that will be resolved by putting those same barriers in the way of recruiting EU nationals.

The issue of language testing has been covered before and in fact there is nothing (and never was anything) preventing appropriate language testing in any profession as part of the recruitment and selection process.

Dick Dasterdly Aug 19th 2016 10:36 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
EU doctors three times more likely to face disciplinary action for poor English than other foreign medics

Shocking state of affairs.
EU doctors only require basic language skills due to EU regulations.

"Under rules which came into force in 2014 doctors applying to the NHS from Europe only need to score 7.5 on the International English Language Testing System, which equates to basic conversational skills."


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