British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Jun 27th 2016 10:06 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986059)
Now that the reality is dawning with those who will be leading the negotiations the final outcome will probably be " EU light"
As Boris confirmed this morning the UK needs to retain its free trade agreements with the EU.
The price will be a form of free movement of labour and peoples, no visas, landing cards etc for EU citizens.
Immigration will continue in 6 figures.
The promise to maintain EU funding from Government funding will be quietly forgotten..
What ever concessions are needed to ensure that mega projects like Hinkley point and Heathrow expansion go ahead will be made.
Many brexiters are going to be very unhappy when the next general election is held and ukip will probably be the beneficiary .

I tend to agree with some of that. Projects will go ahead as planned, simply because they must, else it will only put fuel on the flames. Besides, we won't be really "leaving" anytime soon.

But UKIP's credibility is already tanking, and likely will continue as reality unfolds.

I still suspect the more liberal in British politics will be the prime beneficiaries. Exactly the last thing the brexit camp wanted. We may well not even have left by 2020, quite possibly not even have invoked article 50. It won't be pretty.

Assanah Jun 27th 2016 10:09 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986059)
Now that the reality is dawning with those who will be leading the negotiations the final outcome will probably be " EU light"
As Boris confirmed this morning the UK needs to retain its free trade agreements with the EU.
The price will be a form of free movement of labour and peoples, no visas, landing cards etc for EU citizens.
Immigration will continue in 6 figures.
The promise to maintain EU funding from Government funding will be quietly forgotten..
What ever concessions are needed to ensure that mega projects like Hinkley point and Heathrow expansion go ahead will be made.
Many brexiters are going to be very unhappy when the next general election is held and ukip will probably be the beneficiary .

Yep, considering that free trade agreement with the EU will only be possible with free movement of people there will be a lot of dissapointment. But hey, don't say that nobody told you so.

Yes, I as a European mean what I said: Free trade AND free movement or f+++ off UK.

Bipat Jun 27th 2016 10:23 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 11986068)
Yep, considering that free trade agreement with the EU will only be possible with free movement of people there will be a lot of dissapointment. But hey, don't say that nobody told you so.

Yes, I as a European mean what I said: Free trade AND free movement or f+++ off UK.

Other possibilities.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/impa...k-left-the-eu/

Fredbargate Jun 27th 2016 10:37 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 11986068)
Yep, considering that free trade agreement with the EU will only be possible with free movement of people there will be a lot of dissapointment. But hey, don't say that nobody told you so.

Yes, I as a European mean what I said: Free trade AND free movement or f+++ off UK.

I personally would under those circumstances be happy to accept the f+++ off option.

EMR Jun 27th 2016 10:39 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 11986065)
I tend to agree with some of that. Projects will go ahead as planned, simply because they must, else it will only put fuel on the flames. Besides, we won't be really "leaving" anytime soon.

But UKIP's credibility is already tanking, and likely will continue as reality unfolds.

I still suspect the more liberal in British politics will be the prime beneficiaries. Exactly the last thing the brexit camp wanted. We may well not even have left by 2020, quite possibly not even have invoked article 50. It won't be pretty.

I do hope that liberalism will return, ukip is now targeting disenchanted labour voters in areas of deprivation and unemployment.
It will be up to Labour to win them back.
Many may have voted to leave but those who will now govern the country are back pedalling fast.
If the EU allows it we will still be de facto members for some time yet.

amideislas Jun 27th 2016 11:01 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986095)
I do hope that liberalism will return, ukip is now targeting disenchanted labour voters in areas of deprivation and unemployment.
It will be up to Labour to win them back.
Many may have voted to leave but those who will now govern the country are back pedalling fast.
If the EU allows it we will still be de facto members for some time yet.

Labour is likely to ditch Corbyn soon, and engage in a total remake, becoming far more centrist and raising its stakes as the party of "the average joe" but with a message of "economic sensibility" in the next elections. Labour's complete chaos of today will be only a distant memory by then.

The conservatives and UKIP will likely only denegrate into more chaos and distrust as the future without a plan doesn't work out as (not) planned, and increasingly appears to benefit only the "elite".

And voters will be just as hungry for "taking back control" from the "elite" as they are now, if not more so.

lutonlad Jun 27th 2016 11:40 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 11986118)
Labour is likely to ditch Corbyn soon, and engage in a total remake, becoming far more centrist and raising its stakes as the party of "the average joe" but with a message of "economic sensibility" in the next elections. Labour's complete chaos of today will be only a distant memory by then.

The conservatives and UKIP will likely only denegrate into more chaos and distrust as the future without a plan doesn't work out as (not) planned, and increasingly appears to benefit only the "elite".

And voters will be just as hungry for "taking back control" from the "elite" as they are now, if not more so.

Fortunately, without Scotland, Labour as a left wing protest group stand no chance of forming a government. Three cheers for Nicola!

amideislas Jun 27th 2016 12:02 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 11986163)
Fortunately, without Scotland, Labour as a left wing protest group stand no chance of forming a government. Three cheers for Nicola!

Let's see if you'll be cheering her on next year when the political climate hits the wall. I reckon quite a few will be "blaming" her and everyone else, right along with our prominent brexit saviours.

Dick Dasterdly Jun 27th 2016 12:10 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 11986187)
Let's see if you'll be cheering her on next year when the political climate hits the wall. I reckon quite a few will be "blaming" her and everyone else, right along with our prominent brexit saviours.


Ami I have news for you,

You lost, take it on the chin instead of endlessly whinging.

The fearmongering campaign is over and done with and all of a sudden has changed direction, surprise, surprise. :cool:

EMR Jun 27th 2016 12:23 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 11986193)
Ami I have news for you,

You lost, take it on the chin instead of endlessly whinging.

The fearmongering campaign is over and done with and all of a sudden has changed direction, surprise, surprise. :cool:

Again, you are not following events, the change of direction will be a slight move to the right not the about face you expected.
Money talks business rules.

amideislas Jun 27th 2016 12:23 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
"Brexit" is "yesterday's news" and quite passe now, Dick.

I'm much more concerned with what they're going to do now. And so far, the only clarity that seems to be emerging looks increasingly similar to what we already have.

I suggest you might also try looking beyond your glorious "win" now. Because if you're looking forward at all, there's growing evidence it may well end up looking nothing like what you think you've "won".

GeniB Jun 27th 2016 12:41 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Just to remind the Leavers.. again

BREXIT is not legal.. BREXIT is an advisory poll taken by the people to give it's Government an indication of their feelings on any matter of importance

The people have indeed spoken..but..not entirely with a clear enough margin..to make a government ,largely consisting of remainers to want to rubber stamp it

It would indeed have been better if a certain margin had been allowed for ,as the now famous instigator of the petition asked for.. He by the way started it many months before the election as he was afraid that the LEAVERS would lose the vote..He being one of them.. Ironic as it's now been hijacked by the remainers to voice their protest at the result

None of this matters however!! As Lord Astor(Dave's FIL) said on the Spectators website of June 7th 'If the Brexiters win an exit from the EU is actually not deliverable.The EU referendum has no legal standing to force an exit.Parliament is STILL Sovereign (Um as it always has been folks) The Government needs to get an act of Parliament i.e. an agreement of all MP's to go ahead and start the process..They will no doubt take into consideration the will of the people.. but will be very aware it represents only half the population in England and virtually none in Scotland and Ireland.. Now how do you think they will vote? Remember these are your democratically elected representatives
'

Vexcore Jun 27th 2016 1:06 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 11985931)
I think you're going to be in for some very big disappointments Vex. Have you noticed how swiftly the immigration talk has switched to "we never promised to get the figures down to the tens of thousands"? You can read that from a number of Leavers on here - and it's true. They didn't.

Have you seen the interview with Daniel Hannan on the matter? Here's a clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCghi2rVaWY&app=desktop

This is now.... but when we FULLY LEAVE EU? we can control it.

At the moment we can't (still under EU law) But yea i get what you mean, both sides where telling lies.





Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 11986217)
Just to remind the Leavers.. again

BREXIT is not legal.. BREXIT is an advisory poll taken by the people to give it's Government an indication of their feelings on any matter of importance

The people have indeed spoken..but..not entirely with a clear enough margin..to make a government ,largely consisting of remainers to want to rubber stamp it

It would indeed have been better if a certain margin had been allowed for ,as the now famous instigator of the petition asked for.. He by the way started it many months before the election as he was afraid that the LEAVERS would lose the vote..He being one of them.. Ironic as it's now been hijacked by the remainers to voice their protest at the result

None of this matters however!! As Lord Astor(Dave's FIL) said on the Spectators website of June 7th 'If the Brexiters win an exit from the EU is actually not deliverable.The EU referendum has no legal standing to force an exit.Parliament is STILL Sovereign (Um as it always has been folks) The Government needs to get an act of Parliament i.e. an agreement of all MP's to go ahead and start the process..They will no doubt take into consideration the will of the people.. but will be very aware it represents only half the population in England and virtually none in Scotland and Ireland.. Now how do you think they will vote? Remember these are your democratically elected representatives
'


It's not a legal binding thing... but the people have decided and we will push on, Boris n Gove looked surprised when the final result came in... (don't think they expected to win lol..)

And if they withdraw this? uk will look really really stupid... Also the EU is pissed at UK they want us out by the looks of it.

Dick Dasterdly Jun 27th 2016 1:07 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
In a word, GeniB, OUT ! :cool:

Lion in Winter Jun 27th 2016 1:15 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
'Go back home' - Bitter backlash post EU referendum - BBC News

And again, here in the US this morning, I am embarrassed for my country. It's all over the US headlines, too.

amideislas Jun 27th 2016 1:19 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 11986253)



It's not a legal binding thing... but the people have decided and we will push on, Boris n Gove looked surprised when the final result came in... (don't think they expected to win lol..)

And if they withdraw this? uk will look really really stupid... Also the EU is pissed at UK they want us out by the looks of it.

Well, the UK's credibility has already taken a hit. Now it's all about damage control.

In light of recent revelations of UK internal processes, the questions hanging over the actual meaning of this referendum, how "conciliatory" and "resistive" to invoking article 50 that the "likely" new heads of government are sounding now, the EU is backing away from further pressure to move forward. For now.

Dick Dasterdly Jun 27th 2016 1:25 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
UK Exit: Juncker Calls For Speedy 'Divorce'

Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, says there is no reason to wait until David Cameron is replaced in October to begin negotiating Britain's exit from the European Union.

Speaking to Germany's ARD television station, Mr Juncker added that he wants to start negotiating the UK's reformed relationship with Europe "immediately".

"Britons decided (on Thursday) that they want to leave the European Union, so it doesn't make any sense to wait until October to try to negotiate the terms of their departure," he said.

"I would like to get started immediately"

Lion in Winter Jun 27th 2016 1:46 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 11986282)
UK Exit: Juncker Calls For Speedy 'Divorce'

Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, says there is no reason to wait until David Cameron is replaced in October to begin negotiating Britain's exit from the European Union.

Speaking to Germany's ARD television station, Mr Juncker added that he wants to start negotiating the UK's reformed relationship with Europe "immediately".

"Britons decided (on Thursday) that they want to leave the European Union, so it doesn't make any sense to wait until October to try to negotiate the terms of their departure," he said.

"I would like to get started immediately"


It isn't up to him.

It's up to the UK - while there still is one.

Vexcore Jun 27th 2016 1:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
"I would like to get started immediately"


YES PLEASE

EMR Jun 27th 2016 1:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 11986282)
UK Exit: Juncker Calls For Speedy 'Divorce'

Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, says there is no reason to wait until David Cameron is replaced in October to begin negotiating Britain's exit from the European Union.

Speaking to Germany's ARD television station, Mr Juncker added that he wants to start negotiating the UK's reformed relationship with Europe "immediately".

"Britons decided (on Thursday) that they want to leave the European Union, so it doesn't make any sense to wait until October to try to negotiate the terms of their departure," he said.

"I would like to get started immediately"

The brexit leaders do not, I wonder why?

la mancha Jun 27th 2016 2:19 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 11985936)
So some of the things The Plan might need to incorporate are things like "what does out mean?". There seem to be different interpretations coming from the Leave camp, some of which appear to mean only part-way out. We're not going to get screams of TRAITOR again, are we, if that ends up being the case? (see the vid I posted for Vex)

Why would the Treasury and the Home Office and the Foreign Office have drawn up plans already? They act on instructions of the government and the government was campaigning for Remain. I expect in the brave current world of the slimline public sector, it's pretty difficult to rustle up a few hundred civil servants to work on an eventuality you're not planning on occurring. But yes - they probably have some outline scenarios and will be awaiting further instructions from somebody when a load of other somebodys have decided who that somebody is to be.

What I would have expected was for the official Leave campaign to be absolutely clear about what future relationship with the EU the UK would be looking to have and to present that to the public alongside a summary of the benefits in changing the status quo. Because it now appears that large swathes of the general public think they've voted to sever all ties, halt immigration, send back people already living in the UK etc etc. and they are going to be very down in the mouth when they find out that isn't necessarily the case.

I’m surprised you said that because you must know that every civilised nation has a strategy for everything. If the Tories have not then this government has no place to govern. Or is that what you mean by ‘outline scenarios’? Are these not plans?

The government now has to tell the civil service to look at all EU legislation, if they haven’t already done so, and see what is relevant to the UK and what isn’t.

If none of this has been done you cannot blame Brexit supporting MPs. It is the sole responsibility of the government. The Leave campaign was only a campaign group. The leave campaign cannot order a government department or the civil service to look at anything, especially as they are now dissolved.

We do not know of the future relationship with the EU as that still has to be discussed after article 50. It is two-sided. But the benefits were quite clearly laid out by Leave: independence.

Bipat Jun 27th 2016 2:20 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11986261)
'Go back home' - Bitter backlash post EU referendum - BBC News

And again, here in the US this morning, I am embarrassed for my country. It's all over the US headlines, too.

Lion ----these people have always been there. An event such as the Referendum gives them a chance to be briefly listened to and sell newspapers. Then they go back into their lairs.

The 'Desi-vote' analysed yesterday by Times of India showed a majority for Brexit.
With a general trend as with all British people--the older and less well-off for leave and the wealthy and younger people for remain.

Only city of Leicester went against that trend. Very unflattering photo in the local newspaper of that awful MP, Keith Vaz, being disappointed.

EMR Jun 27th 2016 2:23 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11986345)
I’m surprised you said that because you must know that every civilised nation has a strategy for everything. If the Tories have not then this government has no place to govern. Or is that what you mean by ‘outline scenarios’? Are these not plans?

The government now has to tell the civil service to look at all EU legislation, if they haven’t already done so, and see what is relevant to the UK and what isn’t.

If none of this has been done you cannot blame Brexit supporting MPs. It is the sole responsibility of the government. The Leave campaign was only a campaign group. The leave campaign cannot order a government department or the civil service to look at anything, especially as they are now dissolved.

We do not know of the future relationship with the EU as that still has to be discussed after article 50. It is two-sided. But the benefits were quite clearly laid out by Leave: independence.

This was discussed on bbc news yesterday, a constitutional expert suggested that it could take years to re write UK laws, pass the required acts of Parliament.
We do not have a government with any authority to start the process and will not for months.

Dick Dasterdly Jun 27th 2016 2:27 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11986306)
It isn't up to him.

It's up to the UK - while there still is one.

The UK will still be around when the EU in its present form is a sad and sorry piece of history and it's well on its way to being that right now, since it entered self destruct mode and made it clear there's no turning back.

Compared to the storms that the UK has come through in its history, the present few ripples in the ocean are a mere nothing. :cool:

la mancha Jun 27th 2016 2:34 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
EMR
Five minutes ago you said, ‘The brexit leaders do not (want to get started immediately – my words), I wonder why?’

Now you say, ’We do not have a government with any authority to start the process and will not for months.’

You have just answered your question.

lutonlad Jun 27th 2016 2:40 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 11986254)
In a word, GeniB, OUT ! :cool:

:goodpost:

Or to put it another way. You HAVE been caught, and for you the Chase is over.

EMR Jun 27th 2016 2:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 11986362)
EMR
Five minutes ago you said, ‘The brexit leaders do not (want to get started immediately – my words), I wonder why?’

Now you say, ’We do not have a government with any authority to start the process and will not for months.’

You have just answered your question.

The EU however can and will decide the terms of UK exit and access to the EU markets.

Dick Dasterdly Jun 27th 2016 2:48 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 11986371)
:goodpost:

Or to put it another way. You HAVE been caught, and for you the Chase is over.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

SultanOfSwing Jun 27th 2016 2:50 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Tell you what, though, if you could run an economy on self-righteousness, this thread alone could make the UK a world leader again in seconds :blink:

lutonlad Jun 27th 2016 2:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986377)
The EU however can and will decide the terms of UK exit and access to the EU markets.

Quick question if I may.

Do you fantasize about Mr Juncker in your sleep ? Or do you only get turned on when the markets take a dive ? :p

holly_1948 Jun 27th 2016 2:52 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986350)
This was discussed on bbc news yesterday, a constitutional expert suggested that it could take years to re write UK laws, pass the required acts of Parliament.
...

The alternative is the nuclear option.
Which is to simply repeal the 1972 European Communities Act.
And hey-presto, Britain is out of the EU overnight and all EU regulations and directives become voluntary, instead of binding. (Companies who want to stay in business had better follow them voluntarily in the short term).

Of course you are right that we don't have a government capable of doing anything meaningful at the moment. That may be a good thing as it turns out.

What next? Repeal the Act of Union 1707?

Lion in Winter Jun 27th 2016 3:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by holly_1948 (Post 11986393)


What next? Repeal the Act of Union 1707?

What have the Romans ever done for us, eh?

Lion in Winter Jun 27th 2016 3:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Hey look, it's just like the good old days. How nostalgic.



http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cps...718_-dwxlw.jpg

Bipat Jun 27th 2016 3:59 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11986435)
Hey look, it's just like the good old days. How nostalgic.



http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cps...718_-dwxlw.jpg


See post 422.

EMR Jun 27th 2016 4:09 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 11986392)
Quick question if I may.

Do you fantasize about Mr Juncker in your sleep ? Or do you only get turned on when the markets take a dive ? :p

Do you not understand that from tomorrow there will be no British representation, 27 nations can and decide what is best for them months before any UK negotiator turns up, whoever that might be.

Pulaski Jun 27th 2016 4:14 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986377)
The EU however can and will decide the terms of ..... access to the EU markets.

And vice versa. It takes two to tango, but if one side refuses to negotiate then they are likely to get blamed for any extended period of uncertainty.

Pulaski Jun 27th 2016 4:17 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 11986465)
Do you not understand that .... 27 nations can and decide what is best for them ......

That's been happening for the past decade, ..... prior to that it was 14 nations. :nod:

GeniB Jun 27th 2016 4:22 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 11986254)
In a word, GeniB, OUT ! :cool:


You sound a tad rattled chuck..!!

I am just reporting the facts here with NO axe to grind.. Said it before ..It matters not a jot in the running of my day day to day life ..I suspect thats the same for many of these 'passionate posters' on BE

However I am fascinated by the machinations going on in the UK..It's like a massive game of chess. whose move is it next? I certainly don't believe that because 51% of the populace of England voted a certain way thats IT. Rather than me being caught.. I suspect jo Public has been hoodwinked..To much wriggle room folks :starsmile: Let me know when Article 50 has been signed!!

GeniB Jun 27th 2016 4:23 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 11986371)
:goodpost:

Or to put it another way. You HAVE been caught, and for you the Chase is over.


Nope Luton.. read my post to Dick above... :starsmile:

EMR Jun 27th 2016 4:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11986471)
And vice versa. It takes two to tango, but if one side refuses to negotiate then they are likely to get blamed for any extended period of uncertainty.

Very true but we are no longer at the table, the music has started but we cannot join in the dancing for months .


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:53 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.