British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

amideislas Apr 7th 2017 11:43 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Yes, a lot of things are possible; except the (grossly uninformed) example you offered.

Ready. shoot. aim.

Lion in Winter Apr 7th 2017 2:09 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Will nobody think of the Marmite and Freddos?

Brexit: How it affected the UK's favourite foods, from Weetabix and Freddos to Marmite and Mr Kipling | The Independent

amideislas Apr 7th 2017 2:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
There are angles from which our own faces are unfamiliar. Even in the age of the selfie, it is hard to picture the person that others see when they look at us. We cannot observe ourselves unawares; we will never see ourselves in the mirror with our eyes closed.

This phenomenon applies on a national scale. The country we know ourselves to be is not always the same as the one that other countries observe. The remote perspective can be instructive, even if only to illuminate cultural disparities. On holiday in the US earlier this summer I met a friendly off-duty cop who was very agitated by my government’s refusal to allow law-abiding citizens to carry deadly weapons. Not even knives! But that’s Europe for you; funny Old World.

Crossing the Atlantic is an efficient treatment for the delusion that Britain is significant in some way distinctively from its status as a European country. Viewed from America, the English Channel is not a formidable maritime border. The many historical, linguistic and cultural threads that seem to connect Britain to the US are mere decorative tassels around the edge of the vast continental canvas.
...
The job of extricating Britain from the EU plunges May deep into the gap between Britain as it sees itself and Britain as the world sees it. For many Tory Brexit campaigners, the ideological impetus was never isolationist or chauvinist. The theory was that Britain should become a hub of global trade, woven seamlessly into Europe’s single market while unbound by its meddlesome regulations. But that was a fantasy, unavailable in reality and hard to pitch to a mass audience. So to secure the result they wanted, Conservative Brexiteers made a Faustian pact with anti-immigrant populism. They mostly deny it, of course...

Many leave supporters insist they were only standing up for democracy; no offence intended. But our European neighbours interpret the result as a spasm of unfriendly nationalist reaction, because that is what they saw from not very far away.

Read More

morpeth Apr 7th 2017 9:57 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12223668)
It's not about the result but it's consequences.
Nothing in Trumps actions to date suggests that his achievements vs election rhetoric will amount to much.
Just like brexit.

I re-read my post and had nothing to do about what Trump is doing, just pointing put conventional thinking is missing the mark on some key political situations like whether Trump would get elected. I was just posing the question whether some out of the box thinking could get a better result to this Brexit mess.

Dick Dasterdly Apr 7th 2017 9:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...share_btn_link


A few weeks ago, a significant anniversary in Maastricht slipped by almost unnoticed: 25 years ago, the historic treaty that ushered in the euro was drafted.

But there was no fanfare, no commemoration in the European parliament, no mention at all by the commission. There was just a rather lacklustre speech by the EU president, Jean-Claude Juncker, in which he lamented that people were not sufficiently proud of what had been achieved on 9 December 1991.

This air of resignation perfectly epitomises an EU in retreat. Battered, bothered and bewildered on all sides by a succession of crises – Brexit, the euro, refugees – the union is short of ideas, perhaps shorter than it has ever been.

In his state of the union speech last autumn, the very best that Juncker could come up with was free Wi-Fi for every EU town and village by 2020, though even this sounded more like an aspiration than a concrete policy.

:cool:

Thairetired2016 Apr 8th 2017 1:11 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Little Switzerland has many more FTAs than Big EU:
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Aussenwirtschaftspolitik_Wirtschaftliche_Zusammena rbeit/Wirtschaftsbeziehungen/Freihandelsabkommen/Liste_der_Freihandelsabkommen_der_Schweiz.html
While it cannot be done over night there is no reason Little Britain could not achieve this. Plus Suisse is the 2nd wealthiest country (private wealth). Take a leaf out of her book. Just do what the Swiss do. Stand up to Juncker et al.

Assanah Apr 8th 2017 6:20 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 (Post 12224188)
Little Switzerland has many more FTAs than Big EU:
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/Aussenwirtschaftspolitik_Wirtschaftliche_Zusammena rbeit/Wirtschaftsbeziehungen/Freihandelsabkommen/Liste_der_Freihandelsabkommen_der_Schweiz.html
While it cannot be done over night there is no reason Little Britain could not achieve this. Plus Suisse is the 2nd wealthiest country (private wealth). Take a leaf out of her book. Just do what the Swiss do. Stand up to Juncker et al.

Switzerland is a small country with lots of banks and nearly 25% of foreign workers. They are a bigger London so to speak. They also accept freedom of movement, pay a massive contribution to the EU and transfer most EU laws into Swiss law. Because they realized that despite all those FTAs the EU is not only their most important trading partner but their neighbor as well.And yes you are right. The Swiss solution would also be a good one for the UK....However, May has already refused to accept anything close to the Swiss-EU-relationship out of hand.

jimenato Apr 8th 2017 7:58 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 (Post 12224188)
Little Switzerland has many more FTAs than Big EU:
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...r_Schweiz.html
While it cannot be done over night there is no reason Little Britain could not achieve this. Plus Suisse is the 2nd wealthiest country (private wealth). Take a leaf out of her book. Just do what the Swiss do. Stand up to Juncker et al.

I completely agree.

It's all about damage limitation now. We need to do what Farage, Hannan and all promised and go down the Norway/Swiss route - free movement, contributions and all.

iano Apr 8th 2017 9:37 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by jimenato (Post 12224313)
It's all about damage limitation now..

I completely agree. Time to revoke Article 50.

Do we really want to be stood outside in the corridor with Norway while the big players at the table make the decisions that directly affect us ?

EMR Apr 8th 2017 9:43 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12224358)
I completely agree. Time to revoke Article 50.

Do we really want to be stood outside in the corridor with Norway while the big players at the table make the decisions that directly affect us ?

Why worry we will be part of a club that includes the US, India etc.
Probably not a full member with the rights that we currently have but as least we will have our " freedom!!". :sarcasm::sarcasm:

DaveLovesDee Apr 8th 2017 11:54 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 (Post 12224188)
Little Switzerland has many more FTAs than Big EU:
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/ho...r_Schweiz.html
While it cannot be done over night there is no reason Little Britain could not achieve this. Plus Suisse is the 2nd wealthiest country (private wealth). Take a leaf out of her book. Just do what the Swiss do. Stand up to Juncker et al.

Do you have a link that doesn't give an Error 404 code?

It's easy to make a claim with a link and assume the link supports the claim, but your link doesn't.

Never mind, I'll do it myself.

The EU has 42 FTAs covering over 50 countries Europe Mediterranean Other countries.

EFTA (the European Free Trade Area) has 27 FTAs covering 38 countries EFTA

Switzerland has 28 FTAs covering 38 countries Switzerland

So you're wrong. Switzerland has fewer FTAs than the EU, but has one more than EFTA does.

jimenato Apr 8th 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12224358)
I completely agree. Time to revoke Article 50.

Do we really want to be stood outside in the corridor with Norway while the big players at the table make the decisions that directly affect us ?

That would be ideal but it ain't gonna happen. Have to go for next best.

Thairetired2016 Apr 8th 2017 12:59 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12224358)
I completely agree. Time to revoke Article 50.

Do we really want to be stood outside in the corridor with Norway while the big players at the table make the decisions that directly affect us ?

The ones outside are doing well despite their contributions. Rather be rich outside than poor inside.
The remaining 27 countries as a whole might seem a "big player". How many of these are actually "big"? France and Germany rule the empire, the others stand to attention and say "yes".
While Switzerland has to agree to free movement, they attract a better class than other countries. For the ones they don't want, life is difficult.
"Swiss are friendly
folks until you decide to immigrate" is the saying.

DaveLovesDee Apr 8th 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 (Post 12224431)
The ones outside are doing well despite their contributions. Rather be rich outside than poor inside.

I think you'll find that Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein are all rich because one has spent it's oil money wisely, and the other two are tax havens.


The remaining 27 countries as a whole might seem a "big player". How many of these are actually "big"? France and Germany rule the empire, the others stand to attention and say "yes".
Each of the national leaders of each member state has exactly the same vote in any EU meetings, and if Germany and France are perceived as 'ruling the empire' that's probably because the only times the UK seems to raise it's voice is to say it wants another opt-out.

Germany has 96 MEPs, France 74, and the UK and Italy have 73 MEPs each. MEPs tend to vote along the same lines as other MEPs of the same political colour, not always of the same nationality. This idea that Germany and France rule the EU is a common perception, so was the perception that the EU removed sovereignty from the UK. Both are false, as the Brexit White Paper clearly admitted in the case of the sovereignty claims.


While Switzerland has to agree to free movement, they attract a better class than other countries. For the ones they don't want, life is difficult.
"Swiss are friendly folks until you decide to immigrate" is the saying.
Free movement of EU workers has worked for Switzerland – so far

Scamp Apr 9th 2017 4:46 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12223559)
Happy Friday!

Found this. A well-written examination of the realities of UK trade, and the challenges that Brexit will impose on it. Not a terribly difficult read, and well worth the effort.

Bracing ourselves for Brexit

There is a new ambivalence about trade in western societies. Remarkably, this unpicking of the pro-globalization orthodoxy of the post-Cold War period has come not from the world’s poor, nor from the ranks of the usual protectionist suspects, but from within the two great advocates of open trade: America and Britain. We have an American President who says ‘protection will lead to great prosperity and strength’, while Britain is turning its back on the European Union internal market it invented.


This is a difficult context in which to pursue the vision of Global Britain. It is ironic that the first step towards this involves leaving the world’s most sophisticated international trade and regulatory system.

Making a reality of the soundbite will require a new, hard-headed and evidence-based strategy for future British trade; one which reflects the realities of our markets in the world, the changing nature of trade, with its complex international supply chains and the growth of services and digital commerce, and the relative strengths of the UK economy. Brexit also makes it more important than ever for the UK to defend an international trade system in the World Trade Organization with rules ensuring non-discrimination, fair competition and enforcement.

Alone, we will be less equipped to cope in a trade environment driven by the bilateral and power-based instincts of the new US administration and China, or indeed the sheer trading weight of the future EU.

Read more


Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12223570)
Yes, it's astonishing, that first paragraph or two, isn't it?

Not only have those two countries dragged so many others with them but those within them who were and are responsible for it now find it so easy to deflect any blame from themselves and instead point the finger at "liberals" and "elites". Bloody marvellous.

I suppose one has to admire them to a certain extent for the sheer gall of it.

These should probably be shared daily.

The problem is the folk like Dick are just busy chomping at the EU and desperately hoping it 'fails' rather than thinking beyond the end of their own purple noses at what might happen to the UK instead of the EU. :huh:


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