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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Apr 6th 2017 9:18 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 11981064)
Suppose there isn't a Brexit? What thread will we use then?

Don't worry Dick and friends will go on and on and on about their paranoid fixation with the EU etc.

GeniB Apr 6th 2017 9:29 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222855)
Look, few of the current government leadership had nary a clue what Brexit really meant when they assumed power.

I will be the last to stand up for the likes of Boris or any of the other [convenient] brexiteers who've only managed to make things far worse with their delusional dogmatism and resulting inflammatory narratives. It's been a bit like as if as the company board of directors consistently insults its largest customer for questioning the wisdom of dropping them as a customer.

In the end, in such a divided government and electorate, nobody's going to be happy no matter what the result. May has inherited nothing less than a political paradox for her and her party. There is no upside here. The job turned out to be little else but damage control, and in pursuit of that, spinning it in a way that satisfies a broad spectrum of divergent, dogmatic, and even delusional views from every direction.

I can't help but feel pity for her.

Must beg to differ there Ami. I think the Oxford set were very well aware what a brexit would entail many many yrs before they got to preside over it. (wrote a post about their time together at oxford debating thie very subject) The whole lack lustre,minimum information,tabloid hijacked campaign makes more sense now These are career politicians with little or no sense of how the real world works.but huge ego's and driving ambition.

I haven't a moments sympathy for a woman who played a turncoat role and who sacked a man who had proved himself worthy of being a lord by serving the people and not himself..

This 'Oxford Set' are now discovering that there's nowhere to run to.Theresa is the one they have pushed forward to take the flak.and hide behind . like Matron. She knows better than anyone she holds the 'poison chalice' so she is making hay whilst she can.. It will be short lived

iano Apr 6th 2017 9:36 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222855)
Look, few of the current government leadership had nary a clue what Brexit really meant when they assumed power.

Including the one you pity, the former Home Secretary. Collective cabinet responsibility should have meant they did have a clue, a plan, a strategy for the wide ranging consequence of a binary vote either way. Only the 2 options FFS !

Yesterday, Guy Verhofstadt among elected Reps from 28 nations described Brexit as 'stupidity', and 'kippers Farage and Nuttall were alone in shaking their heads. 'Nuff said.

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 9:49 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
We can agree on one thing then.

I personally liked Tusk's characterisation, "We aren't seeking punitive measures. Brexit itself is punitive enough". And that may well become yet another one of those soundbytes that history remembers.

Novocastrian Apr 6th 2017 10:57 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12222876)
Must beg to differ there Ami. I think the Oxford set were very well aware what a brexit would entail many many yrs before they got to preside over it. (wrote a post about their time together at oxford debating thie very subject) The whole lack lustre,minimum information,tabloid hijacked campaign makes more sense now These are career politicians with little or no sense of how the real world works.but huge ego's and driving ambition.

I haven't a moments sympathy for a woman who played a turncoat role and who sacked a man who had proved himself worthy of being a lord by serving the people and not himself..

This 'Oxford Set' are now discovering that there's nowhere to run to.Theresa is the one they have pushed forward to take the flak.and hide behind . like Matron. She knows better than anyone she holds the 'poison chalice' so she is making hay whilst she can.. It will be short lived

John Crace's satirical piece at the end of 2016 sums it up perfectly...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...it-westminster

DaveLovesDee Apr 6th 2017 11:49 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222855)
In the end, in such a divided government and electorate, nobody's going to be happy no matter what the result. May has inherited nothing less than a political paradox for her and her party. There is no upside here. The job turned out to be little else but damage control, and in pursuit of that, spinning it in a way that satisfies a broad spectrum of divergent, dogmatic, and even delusional views from every direction, and trying to keep her hand-picked cabinet of ideologues from doing even more damage.


Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12222876)
This 'Oxford Set' are now discovering that there's nowhere to run to.Theresa is the one they have pushed forward to take the flak.and hide behind . like Matron. She knows better than anyone she holds the 'poison chalice' so she is making hay whilst she can.. It will be short lived

If the Tories lose the 2020 election, I'd expect Theresa May to face a leadership challenge. If they win in 2020, I'd expect the challenge around 2022-2023 instead?

Theresa May isn't going to be PM after the 2024 election.

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 12:16 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12222954)
If the Tories lose the 2020 election, I'd expect Theresa May to face a leadership challenge. If they win in 2020, I'd expect the challenge around 2022-2023 instead?

Theresa May isn't going to be PM after the 2024 election.

At this stage, I honestly can't imagine anybody "winning" the 2020 election. No political party will likely hold much credibility with anyone. Most tribes will likely be angry about one thing or another.

What's probably going to be needed is a very strong, charismatic, tough centrist with the ability to articulate a sensible way forward. Extremism is still pretty popular. I don't see anyone gearing up for sensible, rational, centrist leadership yet.

I reckon the lib dems come closest, but they have Cameron (Nick Clegg) baggage, and regardless of what their platform is, they're often perceived as "worse than labour", which is a distinction that in reality, would be pretty hard to achieve.

Bipat Apr 6th 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222970)
At this stage, I honestly can't imagine anybody "winning" the 2020 election. No political party will likely hold much credibility with anyone. Most tribes will likely be angry about one thing or another.

What's probably going to be needed is a very strong, charismatic, tough centrist with the ability to articulate a sensible way forward. Extremism is still pretty popular. I don't see anyone gearing up for sensible, rational, centrist leadership yet.

I reckon the lib dems come closest, but they have Cameron (Nick Clegg) baggage, and regardless of what their platform is, they're often perceived as "worse than labour", which is a distinction that in reality, would be pretty hard to achieve.

With Tim Farron?? They chose the wrong leader, should have been Norman Lamb. I used to be a member.

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 12:35 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12222976)
With Tim Farron?? They chose the wrong leader, should have been Norman Lamb. I used to be a member.

I was referring to platform, but you're absolutely right, not the right leader.

I still like Clegg, especially now, but again, carries the perceived "negatives" of Lib Dem, Cameron, and not a particularly tough-arsed leader. But he's intelligent, well-centered and grounded, has a little charisma, and articulates well.

la mancha Apr 6th 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12222533)
When the report refers to the EU exporting, it's referring to the EU member countries as a group.

What would the EU as an entity itself actually manufacture or provide as a service that would be exportable to a non-EU country?

I agree, and I would add the EU is only a dysfunctional organisation with a building in Brussels, so when anyone posts EU export figures on here we can ignore them. Or is it only when I mention EU exports to the Saudis we can ignore them?

la mancha Apr 6th 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12222982)
I was referring to platform, but you're absolutely right, not the right leader.

I still like Clegg, especially now, but again, carries the perceived "negatives" of Lib Dem, Cameron, and not a particularly tough-arsed leader. But he's intelligent, well-centered and grounded, has a little charisma, and articulates well.

For a second I thought you were joking. Come on, tell us it was a joke!!!

amideislas Apr 6th 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12222988)
For a second I thought you were joking. Come on, tell us it was a joke!!!

Well, you exhibit the very perceived "negatives" I spoke of. Yet it's hard to argue that he's not intelligent, well-centered and grounded, has a little charisma, articulates well. I mean, that's just who he is.

But it doesn't surprise me that you'd dismiss that. It's just who you are.

Red Eric Apr 6th 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12222849)
Must be alone then in not 'feeling sorry' for Theresa May, who very cleverly kept her powder relatively dry during the referendum campaign. Why ? Because like most of us she anticipated a Remain victory, but is at heart a Eurosceptic, and considered even more so than her Oxford chums, Cameron, Johnson and Osborne.

Negating to include Gibraltar in the Article 50 terms letter is just the first of many cock ups to come, I fear. This ill thought out 'shitfest' will continue for a while, with Delusional Davis, Fox and BoJo increasingly floundering, the public increasingly restless, before reason (hopefully) will prevail and Article 50 revoked before too much damage is done.

EU referendum: Theresa May could lead 'Out' campaign after Nigel Farage says he'd be 'delighted' if she took the role | The Independent


Originally Posted by iano (Post 12222879)
Including the one you pity, the former Home Secretary. Collective cabinet responsibility should have meant they did have a clue, a plan, a strategy for the wide ranging consequence of a binary vote either way. Only the 2 options FFS !

Am I to infer that you've seen the light and you definitely won't be voting for that shower again? :sneaky:

lutonlad Apr 6th 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12222865)
At the end of the day it will not be the politicians who deicide the success or failure of the Brexit negotiations. It will be those people who have been consistently sidelined and ignored. The business community.. You know..the ones who actually do the trading that makes the money for the country

If the owners/CEO's of those companies do not see any benefit in remiang in a country trading outside the EU.They will simply move. Simple as that .Some already have,some are making plans to .It has happened time and again over the ages. China was the last 'favourite'.
This bickering and mud slinging only makes the atmosphere for trade toxic. I bet there are several countries around the world rubbing their (metaphorical) hands in glee right now at the whole stupid thing

The political class will indeed decide the outcome of Brexit, with many string pullers (on both sides) using the process to promote their ideologies and dogma - the voices of pragmatism and reason taking a back seat.

I'd suggest that most reasonable Leavers would not object to any transitional arrangement maintaining the status quo in terms of EU immigration, provided it enabled civilised and productive negotiations. The same people who in no way object to Free Movement per se, but are perhaps are suspicious that it's one of the drivers that will lead to closer integration and eventually a federal Europe. Hence their desire for the UK alone to decide on it's immigration policy as indeed should any country IMHO.

Of course, had Mr C had been taken more seriously...

lutonlad Apr 6th 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12222976)
With Tim Farron?? They chose the wrong leader, should have been Norman Lamb. I used to be a member.

I second that. I used to be a voter!


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