British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

iano Mar 31st 2017 12:00 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218056)
You and others on the Forum seem determined to ignore the fact that Post Brexit the UK will have more freedom to trade with the rest of the world. 196 world countries only just 27 in the EU not even all of Europe....

With respect, you constantly trot out this line, but a bilateral trade deal is not always easily achievable or desirable in many cases. Trade talks often collapse due to protectionism and/or economic or physical risk.

Look at this link and note the number of countries deemed to be of 'significant' risk and worse.

Coface WorldMap

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:03 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12218066)
Britain already trades with "the rest of the world" under damn good terms, so I'm not clear on how Brexit will change that significantly. In fact, it will take at least a decade or more to re-negotiate trade with everyone it already trades with. And that's optimistic.

Can anyone remind me what was the point in the first place?

Oh, yeah, to curb immigration (something that has precious little to do with the EU)...

You well know that the UK as any EU countries trades with the rest of the world under EU rules. I was speaking of free trade deals.

The immigration question was that with free movement of one small group there could be no proper managemant of immigration. There is no freedom of movement for any other large country that UK trades with is there?
Why not if you think it is a good policy?

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:10 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12218084)
With respect, you constantly trot out this line, but a bilateral trade deal is not always easily achievable or desirable in many cases. Trade talks often collapse due to protectionism and/or economic or physical risk.

Look at this link and note the number of countries deemed to be of 'significant' risk and worse.

Coface WorldMap

Well there are plenty of deals that are achievable and desirable with the other major economies and sought after by them.
Obviously not with the entire world, but unofficial talks already going on with Commonwealth countries.

Just looked at your map, I think it is somewhat out of date!

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:19 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by lutonlad (Post 12218069)
With respect, that's a massive understatement.

Many are desperate for the process to fail and are openly hostile to anyone who voted for brexit, as eloquently put by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown on the famously impartial Matthew Wright programme this week. She despises anyone, including those from her own family who support brexit. It makes her blood boil apparently.
Still, at least she's honest about it - unlike the Gina Miller camp who try to convince everyone that her actions are merely in the interests of parliamentary democracy and have nothing to do with her being anti brexit. Yeah right!

Agree with you--although Yasmin Alibhai-Brown can be guaranteed to over react to most issues.:lol:
I was surprised to listen to Melanie Phillips speak eloquently Pro-Brexit, I usually disagree with her views, but she does have a legal background.

EMR Mar 31st 2017 12:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218088)
Well there are plenty of deals that are achievable and desirable with the other major economies and sought after by them.
Obviously not with the entire world, but unofficial talks already going on with Commonwealth countries.

We already trade with commonwealth countries, nothing to stop us.
I am beginning to detect some doubts in your mind that brexit will turn out to be want you want it to be.
I was in a large UK high street retailers yesterday with branches across and outside of the UK.
I looked and could not find anything made in the UK.
Among the suppliers were, China, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka even Cambodia.
Not much evidence there of any restraints on UK trade .

iano Mar 31st 2017 12:23 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218088)
Well there are plenty of deals that are achievable and desirable with the other major economies and sought after by them.
Obviously not with the entire world, but unofficial talks already going on with Commonwealth countries.

S'right, the same major economies that the EU with all its collective clout has focused on, and which we've benefited from hitherto.

We're giving all that up to pursue 'unofficial talks' with Commonwealth countries such as New Zealand, and you wonder why some of us are pissed off.

Dick Dasterdly Mar 31st 2017 12:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Labour Leave....


"The lovely EU. One of its biggest creditors over the years decides to leave, and it wants to wring them for every penny possible.
This is European unity. European love.
The progressive wonderland.
If liberal fantasies had even a grain of truth, and the EU was indeed such a privileged, opulent club, then its members would not be angry at our leaving. They would pity us, they would be concerned for our psychological wellbeing. And they would thank us for pouring in hundreds of billions of pounds over 4 decades that has helped fund so many of its member states and its sprawling properties. Not a word of it.

Instead we have anger, malice, coercion and punishment tactics.

If they don't want to talk about a future relationship then maybe the UK shouldn't talk about debts. Fall back on WTO, and tell them whenever they are ready to talk about trade we will happily talk about monies owed.
Start preparing for WTO - the basis on which the vast majority of countries trade with the EU, including the US, Japan, China - and maybe we spend this £50bn on other trade deals and fiscal stimulus, infrastructure projects, business support and retraining subsidies for our citizens. Maybe treat ourselves to a few new hospitals for good measure."

EMR Mar 31st 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly (Post 12218095)
Labour Leave....


"The lovely EU. One of its biggest creditors over the years decides to leave, and it wants to wring them for every penny possible.
This is European unity. European love.
The progressive wonderland.
If liberal fantasies had even a grain of truth, and the EU was indeed such a privileged, opulent club, then its members would not be angry at our leaving. They would pity us, they would be concerned for our psychological wellbeing. And they would thank us for pouring in hundreds of billions of pounds over 4 decades that has helped fund so many of its member states and its sprawling properties. Not a word of it.

Instead we have anger, malice, coercion and punishment tactics.

If they don't want to talk about a future relationship then maybe the UK shouldn't talk about debts. Fall back on WTO, and tell them whenever they are ready to talk about trade we will happily talk about monies owed.
Start preparing for WTO - the basis on which the vast majority of countries trade with the EU, including the US, Japan, China - and maybe we spend this £50bn on other trade deals and fiscal stimulus, infrastructure projects, business support and retraining subsidies for our citizens. Maybe treat ourselves to a few new hospitals for good measure."

When will you ever learn Dick.
Labour leave is the Brexit arm of the labour movement.
It is just as representative of the official labour party as you are .

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:34 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by iano (Post 12218094)
S'right, the same major economies that the EU with all its collective clout has focused on, and which we've benefited from hitherto.

We're giving all that up to pursue 'unofficial talks' with Commonwealth countries such as New Zealand, and you wonder why some of us are pissed off.

It obviously has to be unofficial until Brexit. The EU with all its clout failed to get a free trade deal with the fastest moving large economy, and recently tried to resurrect talks--didn't work.

EMR Mar 31st 2017 12:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218101)
It obviously has to be unofficial until Brexit. The EU with all its clout failed to get a free trade deal with the fastest moving large economy, and recently tried to resurrect talks--didn't work.

Why, go on be honest, because India does not believe in Free trade , it still believes in high tariffs to protect its industries.
That is not free trade.
Will the UK be given tariff free access for anything it wants to sell in India ?

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12218091)
We already trade with commonwealth countries, nothing to stop us.
I am beginning to detect some doubts in your mind that brexit will turn out to be want you want it to be.
I was in a large UK high street retailers yesterday with branches across and outside of the UK.
I looked and could not find anything made in the UK.
Among the suppliers were, China, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka even Cambodia.
Not much evidence there of any restraints on UK trade .


You know that UK trades with non-EU countries under EU rules, why refuse to accept that?
I see stuff in the supermarkets here in that (unmentionable on this thread) country --made in UK!

Bipat Mar 31st 2017 12:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12218104)
Why, go on be honest, because India does not believe in Free trade , it still believes in high tariffs to protect its industries.
That is not free trade.
Will the UK be given tariff free access for anything it wants to sell in India ?

That is not true! They are optimistic about a free trade deal with the UK post Brexit.--You are the one going on about the fact that we already trade with them.
Of course though, you know everything about that country don't you? Read the news papers daily, watch TV, discuss with business people, know all about the ongoing changes in economic management?

amideislas Mar 31st 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218086)
You well know that the UK as any EU countries trades with the rest of the world under EU rules. I was speaking of free trade deals.

The immigration question was that with free movement of one small group there could be no proper managemant of immigration. There is no freedom of movement for any other large country that UK trades with is there?
Why not if you think it is a good policy?

Ohhh... So... Britain seeks to gain some sort of trade "advantage" over other EU member states?

OK then. Let's talk about that in say, 30 years, after Britain England has managed to complete the single most diabolical outflanking of the world's largest trading bloc by signing "trade deals" with "the rest of the world" in desperation, while possessing far less leverage as a modest island nation with a shrinking economy & political clout.

EMR Mar 31st 2017 12:53 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12218109)
That is not true! They are optimistic about a free trade deal with the UK post Brexit.--You are the one going on about the fact that we already trade with them.
Of course though, you know everything about that country don't you? Read the news papers daily, watch TV, discuss with business people, know all about the ongoing changes in economic management?

Really , you should read the many articles on the subject such as .Bilaterals. org from Feb.
Not that positive about a UK deal.
What do you mean by free trade, tariff free access for all UK exports.
Answer please.
Brexit is not about trade with India, as you keep reminding us there is a bigger world out there.

Perth Mar 31st 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12216218)
Here's the thing. I know that the blackshirts on here will cut me down in a hail of flashing swords in mere seconds, but I believe that there really was precedent for a second referendum, especially after this 'cooling off' period. Considering the narrow margin of victory, those who possibly didn't vote because they thought Remain was a sure thing and those who did vote Leave and are now suffering from buyer's remorse, there really is a strong case that a second 'comfirmatory' referendum might have yielded a different result.

I agree to a certain extent but the way I look at it is this: we can't keep having elections/referendums until we achieve the results we want. However, in cases of such gravity, a simple majority should not be sufficient to change the course of a country. I think someone earlier had mentioned 60%, and that sounds reasonable. That, of course, would apply to any Scottish vote too.


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