British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

SultanOfSwing Mar 30th 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12217304)
Being insulted by certain people is a compliment. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yeah, that's true. After being indirectly (or even directly) accused of being one for so long, I actually came to realise that I probably actually am a socialist, and I am fine with that, to be honest.

Lion in Winter Mar 30th 2017 3:13 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12217310)
Yeah, that's true. After being indirectly (or even directly) accused of being one for so long, I actually came to realise that I probably actually am a socialist, and I am fine with that, to be honest.

Apart from the whole Cold War thing and a few other items, broadly speaking I would have been quite at home under Attlee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attlee_ministry

Of course this sort of thing would be called Red now. By some.

Bipat Mar 30th 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12217287)

1) They represent the sickening Britain First, Daily Mail reading little Englanders. No 'ordinary British person' that I know would have given them the time of day.

2) Cameron absolutely should have held his ground. He was Prime Minister, he didn't need a bunch of would-be backbenchers telling him how to do his job, but yet he caved and put reelection over the good of the country. Honestly, I'd have accepted a few more seats going to UKIP as reasonable collateral damage for telling them to get bent over the referendum.



3) UKIP have changed the course of Britain, they've set it back 50 years with their ridiculous brand of tabloid-driven nationalist populism. Tell White Van Man exactly what he wants to hear, whip him into a frenzy over brown people, pretend it's about trade rather than lining their own pockets and off you go.

So I will not change my opinion of them. I have absolutely no respect for UKIP as a party, an institution, nor for their ideology and even less for those who fell for the scam and voted for them. If they went away today, it would still not be quick enough.

1) Is putting your own country first wrong?
Does every reader of the Dail Mail agree with everything it reports--It is cheap, with big photos and celebrity news++, so people buy it. They do not all have the advantage of your education, are they less worthy?

2) An election of any kind can be 'bad' for the country???
Just because you disagreed with the result of this election.

3) The official leave campaign had nothing to do with UKIP, do you even know who they were? Why had UKIP only one (now an independent) MP if they are so popular?
"frenzy over brown people", the immigration question was about overall numbers and free movement of one group from part of Europe.
The 'brown people' of the UK voted in the same proportion for Brexit as did others.

Lion in Winter Mar 30th 2017 3:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12217317)
1) Is putting your own country first wrong?
Does every reader of the Dail Mail agree with everything it reports--It is cheap, with big photos and celebrity news++, so people buy it. They do not all have the advantage of your education, are they less worthy?

2) An election of any kind can be 'bad' for the country???
Just because you disagreed with the result of this election.

3) The official leave campaign had nothing to do with UKIP, do you even know who they were? Why had UKIP only one (now an independent) MP if they are so popular?
"frenzy over brown people", the immigration question was about overall numbers and free movement of one group from part of Europe.
The 'brown people' of the UK voted in the same proportion for Brexit as did others.


1) What makes you think that wanting to be part of the EU does NOT mean putting your own country first? For many, that is the vision for the best possible outcome for our country.

2) The calling of the referendum (not an election) by Cameron to save his own political hide is hardly the best or most noble motive. To run it with NO coherent or informative campaign was hugely irresponsible to the country. To have NO plan as to what to do in the event of a loss was hugely irresponsible to the country. To run away and abdicate all responsibility for cleaning up his own mess was hugely irresponsible to the country.

3) To pretend that the xenophobic UKIP rhetoric and that of others had no effect on the Leave vote is to be blind to reality. Are all leave voters xenophobic? Of course not. Did the campaign derive support from blatantly racist and xenophobic elements? Of course yes. There is nothing about being "brown" that prevents one from being both racist and xenophobic.

Fredbargate Mar 30th 2017 3:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
I think BE should open a Toy Shop

They would make a fortune restocking some of you lot.

Bipat Mar 30th 2017 3:26 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12217304)
Being insulted by certain people is a compliment. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Well, being a Brexit voter means insults on most posts, on this part of the Forum.
If it all goes wrong, will the millions who voted for Brexit, according to their honest beliefs and who are not expats, be forced into wearing sackcloth and ashes, with shaved heads for the rest of their lives?

If it all goes well, it will all be due to those sensible remainers who of course will all work unstintingly to promote the best for the inevitable Brexit forced on them.

Lion in Winter Mar 30th 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12217333)
Well, being a Brexit voter means insults on most posts, on this part of the Forum.
If it all goes wrong, will the millions who voted for Brexit, according to their honest beliefs and who are not expats, be forced into wearing sackcloth and ashes, with shaved heads for the rest of their lives?

If it all goes well, it will all be due to those sensible remainers who of course will all work unstintingly to promote the best for the inevitable Brexit forced on them.

There are several leave voters on other parts of the forum who do not come in for insults because they behave in a rational way and don't parrot the Express or betray clearly racist or xenophobic views or endlessly repeat known falsehoods. TIO is another beast entirely, and in terms of its Leave presence dominated by a handful who don't exactly give the best account of themselves.

And frankly, nothing that any of us do will affect the outcome in the slightest. As I've said from the beginning, it's all in the hands of multinational business, their interests, their influence in government. Anyone who is sitting around waiting for "the common man" to benefit is going to have a long wait. Nothing at all to do with the EU either way, but if there is a price to pay for exiting guess who will pay it? Yup, the same people who are on the losing end now.

Bipat Mar 30th 2017 3:38 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12217326)
1) What makes you think that wanting to be part of the EU does NOT mean putting your own country first? For many, that is the vision for the best possible outcome for our country.

2) The calling of the referendum (not an election) by Cameron to save his own political hide is hardly the best or most noble motive. To run it with NO coherent or informative campaign was hugely irresponsible to the country. To have NO plan as to what to do in the event of a loss was hugely irresponsible to the country. To run away and abdicate all responsibility for cleaning up his own mess was hugely irresponsible to the country.

3) To pretend that the xenophobic UKIP rhetoric and that of others had no effect on the Leave vote is to be blind to reality. Are all leave voters xenophobic? Of course not. Did the campaign derive support from blatantly racist and xenophobic elements? Of course yes. There is nothing about being "brown" that prevents one from being both racist and xenophobic.

1) the poster above was suggesting "putting Britain first" was a sin! I was replying to him.

2) Yes, referendum, what ever the reasons for calling it, giving people a vote surely cannot be wrong? Cameron campaigned vigorously to 'remain'.
There was an official 'leave campaign', as I said above do you know who they were.

3) Yes, Nigel Farage hijacked the campaign, but it was nothing new, his entire ambition was for Brexit, and had been for years.

So are you suggesting that 'brown' people who voted for Brexit are possibly both racist and Xenophobic? Thanks on behalf of my family, as you said 'insults can be a compliment'!

(Just seen your above post, thanks again!)

SultanOfSwing Mar 30th 2017 4:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12217316)
Apart from the whole Cold War thing and a few other items, broadly speaking I would have been quite at home under Attlee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attlee_ministry

Of course this sort of thing would be called Red now. By some.

Agreed, on both points.


Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 12217317)
1) Is putting your own country first wrong?
Does every reader of the Dail Mail agree with everything it reports--It is cheap, with big photos and celebrity news++, so people buy it. They do not all have the advantage of your education, are they less worthy?

2) An election of any kind can be 'bad' for the country???
Just because you disagreed with the result of this election.

3) The official leave campaign had nothing to do with UKIP, do you even know who they were? Why had UKIP only one (now an independent) MP if they are so popular?
"frenzy over brown people", the immigration question was about overall numbers and free movement of one group from part of Europe.
The 'brown people' of the UK voted in the same proportion for Brexit as did others.

1) That is highly subjective. As LiW pointed out, wanting to remain an EU member and putting the UK first are not mutually exclusive. With respect to Daily Mail readership, I actually probably have a lower level of education that many of them - I went to university but did not graduate so I have only my A-levels to my name. Levels of education doesn't make one 'worthy', but a person's application of the education the received is important. DM readers aren't 'unworthy' of anything except my respect and that is my own personal stance. However, I do think a lot of them lack important critical thinking skills, and the great many of them I do not trust with decision making when it comes to the 'good of the country'. That is an apolitical thing too, case in point Blair vs Heseltine (or even Major), for example. I come down on the side of the Tory in that head to head.

2) Maybe I worded that badly. Cameron cared more about his party's and his own reelection than anything else, which is why he called the referendum. I believe he expected it to come in favor of remain and that is why he rolled the dice by calling it.

3) UKIP are a joke. They were a joke and always will be a joke. They have (had?) one seat because the parliamentary system of the UK is set up to keep fringe lunatic populists like them out of government because they understand you could sell non-stick glue to the likes of the S*n readership if you dress it up in enough verbal diarrhea.

EMR Mar 30th 2017 4:22 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12217288)
I'm somewhat surprised that you admit to being a sad embittered British migrant but maybe it would be better to stay in the UK and help make Brexit work. ;)

Having watched Davis in Parliament today it is clear that brexit is not about what is best for the UK but onky the Tory party.
The last thing I want to do is to give those who have set our country back 40 years any chance to crow.
Let them sort out the mess and pay the price as soon as labour gets an electable leader.
More and more of my income will be spent in Portugal or outside of the UK.

scrubbedexpat099 Mar 30th 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Maybe it will be the shock the EU needs to get its act together?

(Just joking...)

la mancha Mar 30th 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12217287)
I skip a lot when there are more the 5 pages to catch up on and I haven't been quoted. I almost certainly missed them.



They represent the sickening Britain First, Daily Mail reading little Englanders. No 'ordinary British person' that I know would have given them the time of day.

Cameron absolutely should have held his ground. He was Prime Minister, he didn't need a bunch of would-be backbenchers telling him how to do his job, but yet he caved and put reelection over the good of the country. Honestly, I'd have accepted a few more seats going to UKIP as reasonable collateral damage for telling them to get bent over the referendum.



UKIP have changed the course of Britain, they've set it back 50 years with their ridiculous brand of tabloid-driven nationalist populism. Tell White Van Man exactly what he wants to hear, whip him into a frenzy over brown people, pretend it's about trade rather than lining their own pockets and off you go.

So I will not change my opinion of them. I have absolutely no respect for UKIP as a party, an institution, nor for their ideology and even less for those who fell for the scam and voted for them. If they went away today, it would still not be quick enough.

You are wrong on this. UKIP represents the ordinary British person. I know because I speak to them every day. White Van Man told UKIP exactly what they wanted to hear and acted accordingly, not the other way round. Brown people were and never will be an issue here. Brown people have nothing whatsoever to do with Britain leaving the EU. (The term 'brown people' is stupid. I haven't heard that term here at all. It may sound good to you but to me, and I think many others, it sounds puerile and unseemly.)

UKIP have proved you do not need one single seat in Parliament to make a difference.

Did you know my local UKIP candidate for the 2015 general election was one Mohammed Ali Bhatti?

Is he xenophobic? Is he racist? Is he from Britain First?

This racist and xenophobic nonsense, and I include LIW in this, is truly out-dated and silly now when I have a devout Muslim as my UKIP candidate.

I don’t know why you all don’t just grow up.

EMR Mar 30th 2017 5:47 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
You are wrong on this. UKIP represents the ordinary British person. I know because I speak to them every day. White Van Man told UKIP exactly what they wanted to hear and acted accordingly, not the other way round. Brown people were and never will be an issue here. Brown people have nothing whatsoever to do with Britain leaving the EU. (The term 'brown people' is stupid. I haven't heard that term here at all. It may sound good to you but to me, and I think many others, it sounds puerile and unseemly.)

UKIP have proved you do not need one single seat in Parliament to make a difference.

Did you know my local UKIP candidate for the 2015 general election was one Mohammed Ali Bhatti?

Is he xenophobic? Is he racist? Is he from Britain First?

This racist and xenophobic nonsense, and I include LIW in this, is truly out-dated and silly now when I have a devout Muslim as my UKIP candidate.

I don’t know why you all don’t just grow up.

Denial Denial, if Ukip was such a force why was it humiliated at the polls.
Even your poster boy could not get elected, rejected by Essex pensioners and white van man, Ukip target constituency.
How many white faces were there in the racist poster Farage was gurning in front of.
I hate to think of what in your mind is actually racist and intolerant.

Red Eric Mar 30th 2017 5:52 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
I don’t know why you all don’t just grow up.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing...h-laughter.gif

SultanOfSwing Mar 30th 2017 5:54 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
You are wrong on this. UKIP represents the ordinary British person. I know because I speak to them every day. White Van Man told UKIP exactly what they wanted to hear and acted accordingly, not the other way round. Brown people were and never will be an issue here. Brown people have nothing whatsoever to do with Britain leaving the EU. (The term 'brown people' is stupid. I haven't heard that term here at all. It may sound good to you but to me, and I think many others, it sounds puerile and unseemly.)

Need I remind you the plural of anecdote is not data? Also, you need to read up on hyperbole. Maybe when you get off your high horse, you'll be able to find a dictionary or something.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
UKIP have proved you do not need one single seat in Parliament to make a difference.

'Making a difference' is not always a good thing. A tornado could run through town right now and make a very noticeable difference, but does that mean we should want it to?


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
Did you know my local UKIP candidate for the 2015 general election was one Mohammed Ali Bhatti?

Is he xenophobic? Is he racist? Is he from Britain First?

This racist and xenophobic nonsense, and I include LIW in this, is truly out-dated and silly now when I have a devout Muslim as my UKIP candidate.

Exactly what is it about his race and/or religion that precludes him from being any of that? That's such a terrible non-sequitur, even for you.


Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12217449)
I don’t know why you all don’t just grow up.

More self-righteous nonsense.

I don't understand why you're all getting so defensive about it, either. You all got what you wanted, so go ahead and own it but to think the rest of us are all going to fall in line like a bunch of good little statist robots is ridiculous.


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