British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Take it Outside! (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/)
-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

SultanOfSwing Aug 9th 2016 7:03 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
What fresh hell is this, then?

amideislas Aug 9th 2016 9:47 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
I suspect that as the likelihood of actual brexit grows smaller every day, obviously the most smug amongst the euphoric leavers are left with little choice but to resort to more desperate rhetoric.

Personally, I think Britain should leave, not for the reasons Brexiters want, but because Britain simply doesn't belong there, its fear of Europe no longer fosters a positive or productive influence within the EU. Britain will never be a part of Europe in any meaningful way, and inside it, will always be a stumbling block to a successful Europe, for fear of being marginalised by it. It would be very different if Europe were solely under British control, but it isn't, and won't ever be, so there's no sense in being in it (for Britain anyway).

Britain just wants the economic benefits alone. Unfortunately, it can't have them without being a part of it. Paradoxical at best. I believe there is no option for Britain that does not include some degree of marginalisation. One of those options just represents less marginalisation than the other, but that will require being a [supportive] participant in Europe, and that means a certain degree of marginalisation. The other option, in the long-term, represents a much smaller economy and limited influence on the global stage; yes, far more marginalisation, but at least Britons can perceive themselves as "free" and "self governing", rather than just a "part" of a much larger entity.

Here's an interesting viewpoint from a Brexiter. (we're hearing more and more of this type of narrative emerge as time goes on). I don't agree with all his opinions, but it does exhibit significant moderation from the original mindset.
Brexit won't happen in the end – here's why

I voted Leave – but, looking at the reasons, it's undeniable that we'll stay in the European Union after all

Vexcore Aug 10th 2016 9:55 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
The thing is... people won't forget... Brexit subject will be raised all the time, UNTIL we have fully 100% left.

The government has no choice now.... imagine if they went back on the deal?


Blue passports will be a sign of a successful brexit (that's the 1st stage)

If we still have The red/EU UK passport by 2020... then things are going backwards and very wrong.


Not sure what the fuss is about... but for gods sake (MAY) get it done and get it done now, stop taken the ultimate p!ss.

Nigel Farage said he'll return in 2020, if we haven't left lol... so May better hurry up lol..

moneypenny20 Aug 10th 2016 12:14 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing (Post 12023267)
What fresh hell is this, then?

Fresh?

SultanOfSwing Aug 10th 2016 1:22 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 (Post 12023778)
Fresh?

Yeah, OK. A variation on a theme, then.

amideislas Aug 10th 2016 5:01 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Vexcore (Post 12023695)
The thing is... people won't forget... Brexit subject will be raised all the time, UNTIL we have fully 100% left.

The government has no choice now.... imagine if they went back on the deal?


Blue passports will be a sign of a successful brexit (that's the 1st stage)

If we still have The red/EU UK passport by 2020... then things are going backwards and very wrong.


Not sure what the fuss is about... but for gods sake (MAY) get it done and get it done now, stop taken the ultimate p!ss.

Nigel Farage said he'll return in 2020, if we haven't left lol... so May better hurry up lol..

You haven't really studied what you're suggesting yet, have you? You might have little look. It's pretty intriguing, paradoxical, and frankly, scary.

No worries though. Neither have most voters. And that's a nasty big problem for our new leadership who've by now surely had quite an in depth exposure to what's inside Pandora's box (all public information, by the way, just too complex to hold the interest of most). It'll be interesting how they end up spinning it all.

Vexcore Aug 10th 2016 5:21 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12023995)
You haven't really studied what you're suggesting yet, have you? You might have little look. It's pretty intriguing, paradoxical, and frankly, scary.

No worries though. Neither have most voters. And that's a nasty big problem for our new leadership who've by now surely had quite an in depth exposure to what's inside Pandora's box (all public information, by the way, just too complex to hold the interest of most). It'll be interesting how they end up spinning it all.

Studied what exactly? I'm just saying... by 2020.. if we still are in the 'union' the government is obviously taken the ultimate P!ss and it should not take longer than 4 years.... just 2. (may is being an ass about it) she needs to invoke artcle 50 NOW or by 1st jan 2017 atleast.


I'll fully believe BREXIT, once i hold a blue passport in my hand, and ANY EU LAW isn't recognised on UK soil, (it's just that simple)

EU authority no longer exists or has any power AT ALL on the 'United Kingdom'


And remember... the world is a big place, many countries manage fine without the BS that is the 'EUROPEAN UNION'

It will be rough at first, but in the end? the UK will blossom, (sure.. we'll have cancers like Nicola etc trying to separate our UK UNION, but she'll be gone in the next 5 years i think as she is just full of sh!t.


Leaving EU Scary? yea... but is it a bad thing? NO CHANCE, the impact the EU has had on the UK, was ok to begin with... but glad we're leaving now and no more 'power trip' people in the EU telling us what we can and can not do.

-VX

amideislas Aug 10th 2016 6:27 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Well there you go, folks. I think that rather explains it.

Vexcore Aug 10th 2016 6:37 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12024036)
Well there you go, folks. I think that rather explains it.

love your sarcasm :lol:

amideislas Aug 10th 2016 7:13 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Don't let me stand in your way. Got more? Let's hear it!

Vexcore Aug 10th 2016 10:15 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12024070)
Don't let me stand in your way. Got more? Let's hear it!

Your turn. ;)

paulry Aug 10th 2016 10:33 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by amideislas (Post 12023377)
I suspect that as the likelihood of actual brexit grows smaller every day, obviously the most smug amongst the euphoric leavers are left with little choice but to resort to more desperate rhetoric.

Personally, I think Britain should leave, not for the reasons Brexiters want, but because Britain simply doesn't belong there, its fear of Europe no longer fosters a positive or productive influence within the EU. Britain will never be a part of Europe in any meaningful way, and inside it, will always be a stumbling block to a successful Europe, for fear of being marginalised by it. It would be very different if Europe were solely under British control, but it isn't, and won't ever be, so there's no sense in being in it (for Britain anyway).

Britain just wants the economic benefits alone. Unfortunately, it can't have them without being a part of it. Paradoxical at best. I believe there is no option for Britain that does not include some degree of marginalisation. One of those options just represents less marginalisation than the other, but that will require being a [supportive] participant in Europe, and that means a certain degree of marginalisation. The other option, in the long-term, represents a much smaller economy and limited influence on the global stage; yes, far more marginalisation, but at least Britons can perceive themselves as "free" and "self governing", rather than just a "part" of a much larger entity.

Here's an interesting viewpoint from a Brexiter. (we're hearing more and more of this type of narrative emerge as time goes on). I don't agree with all his opinions, but it does exhibit significant moderation from the original mindset.
Brexit won't happen in the end – here's why

I voted Leave – but, looking at the reasons, it's undeniable that we'll stay in the European Union after all

What a load of twaddle. I can see why the article chimes with you because the author is as confused as you are: voting leave on the one hand and cheering on any perceived setback to leaving the EU on the other. :blink:

amideislas Aug 11th 2016 11:45 am

re: Post EU Referendum
 
Here's some more ironic twaddle, from the pro-leave side.

This correctly depicts how the UK punches far above it's weight as a financial power, because of its EU membership and unfettered access to the European market.

The article from where these charts are linked, offer it as evidence of British exceptionalism, and how Europe is economically dependent on the UK, and even post-Brexit, Europe will have no choice but to continue to be dependent on the UK.

However, the entire narrative blatantly ignores the irony that if the UK isn't in the EU, then there is simply no point in being based in the UK. These UK-based economic "advantages" which literally define the UK economy (and generate 10's of billions in UK tax revenues which drive the UK's tax-based economy) will simply have no choice but move to the continent; Frankfurt, Paris, etc. It's the very reason they're based in the UK: To access the European market, not for access to the (small) UK market, and not because of British exceptionalism.

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/info...hx?h=667&w=400



Same with global companies who are based in Britain - for access to the European market

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/info...hx?h=578&w=400



No unfettered access to the European market? OK, then we have no choice but to move operations to the European market. For now, we'll make contingency plans, but we'll wait and see how this all pans out first. Brexit may not be brexit after all...


EU plans moving bank regulator from London as euro zone eyes City business - Reuters


While those who argued for Britain to leave the EU said the financial industry would thrive without EU shackles, some of its biggest employers including JPMorgan (JPM.N) are scouring Europe to find new locations for their traders, bankers and financial licenses.

Other European capitals are keen for a slice of Britain's financial services industry which contributed 190 billion pounds ($280 billion) to the economy in 2014, roughly 12 percent of economic output. Ireland said on Friday it had been in touch with firms considering relocating.

The industry employs 2.2 million people in Britain including around 90 percent of U.S. investment banks' European staff and 78 percent of capital markets activity by the other 27 members of the EU taking place in the UK.

Britain is also at risk of losing its prized "EU passport" if it fails to secure continued access to the bloc's single market.
Many U.S. and Japanese banks rely on the passport to operate across EU capital markets unhindered while basing most of their staff and operations in London.


Gordon Barlow Aug 11th 2016 4:16 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
But what was Britain's situation before it ever joined the EU? I ask out of ignorance, but if I recall correctly, London was always and traditionally Europe's #1 financial centre.

Dick Dasterdly Aug 11th 2016 6:42 pm

re: Post EU Referendum
 
In EU’s Birthplace, Calls to Break Up With European Bloc Grow Louder - WSJ


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