British Expats

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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

EMR Mar 23rd 2017 11:32 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12211049)
Considering the number of countries in the EU that are getting benefits from the very few who pay in I very much doubt that the UK has benefited financially from EU subsidies.
Yes we may have benefited from EU labour but I believe much of their earnings were sent home to benefit other countries?

If anyone could point to a balance sheet I think it would be very interesting.

I suspect that you are right, that the balance sheet does show an imbalance but nothing like that which you imply.
Our net contribution is nothing like the 350 million on the famous bus.
But there is far more to the benefits UK plc enjoys as a member of the EU than our contributions.
You should ask the leaders in your own part of the world what they think.

Fredbargate Mar 23rd 2017 12:21 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12211102)
I suspect that you are right, that the balance sheet does show an imbalance but nothing like that which you imply.
Our net contribution is nothing like the 350 million on the famous bus.
But there is far more to the benefits UK plc enjoys as a member of the EU than our contributions.
You should ask the leaders in your own part of the world what they think.

First I have not implied what that imbalance is.

Secondly Gibraltar has benefited enormously from the opening of the frontier in the early 80's by Spain joining the Common Market.
However I doubt that the transition into a political EU has made any increases in that benefit, whereas I can see many disadvantages to Gibraltar of the EU.

EMR Mar 23rd 2017 12:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12211146)
First I have not implied what that imbalance is.

Secondly Gibraltar has benefited enormously from the opening of the frontier in the early 80's by Spain joining the Common Market.
However I doubt that the transition into a political EU has made any increases in that benefit, whereas I can see many disadvantages to Gibraltar of the EU.

Gib is in its way is a small example of the economic benefits to the UK of EU membership.
Benefits a hard brexit will put at risk.

Assanah Mar 23rd 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12211049)
Considering the number of countries in the EU that are getting benefits from the very few who pay in I very much doubt that the UK has benefited financially from EU subsidies.
Yes we may have benefited from EU labour but I believe much of their earnings were sent home to benefit other countries?

If anyone could point to a balance sheet I think it would be very interesting.

If you only consider the numbers the UK probably contributed to the EU much more than it benefited through rebates/payments. However, there is the question on how to count the access to the EU markets (will get an idea about how much this is worth after Brexit), how to measure the value of inclusion in research programms and cultural programmes, how to measure the possibility of living and working in other countries( learning the language, retiring in a warmer climate (health). How about the fact that the UK also had bad economic times and will have them in future as well and the possibility that then other countries could be helping the UK in turn through payments or accepting British people in search for work. How do you figure in 70 years of peace and cooperation? How do you figure in the cost that the UK will incur after Brexit for customs officers, trade negoatiators etc?

Fredbargate Mar 23rd 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12211156)
If you only consider the numbers the UK probably contributed to the EU much more than it benefited through rebates/payments. However, there is the question on how to count the access to the EU markets (will get an idea about how much this is worth after Brexit), how to measure the value of inclusion in research programms and cultural programmes, how to measure the possibility of living and working in other countries( learning the language, retiring in a warmer climate (health). How about the fact that the UK also had bad economic times and will have them in future as well and the possibility that then other countries could be helping the UK in turn through payments or accepting British people in search for work. How do you figure in 70 years of peace and cooperation? How do you figure in the cost that the UK will incur after Brexit for customs officers, trade negoatiators etc?

The UK had access to European markets before the EU came into being and even before the Common Market, and I have posted in the past that I had no problems with the Common Market only with the EU and it's political union.

The same goes for the people who lived and worked or retired in Europe, OK in recent years it may have become easier but I had no problems all those years ago and maybe those same problems sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12211170)
...I had no problems all those years ago and maybe those same problems sorted the wheat from the chaff.


Or the elites from the hoi polloi ;)

Assanah Mar 23rd 2017 1:32 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12211170)
The UK had access to European markets before the EU came into being and even before the Common Market, and I have posted in the past that I had no problems with the Common Market only with the EU and it's political union.

The same goes for the people who lived and worked or retired in Europe, OK in recent years it may have become easier but I had no problems all those years ago and maybe those same problems sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Then explain where you draw the line between the economic and the political Union.

la mancha Mar 23rd 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12211223)
Then explain where you draw the line between the economic and the political Union.

Why do you think there should be a Union and not a union?

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 2:25 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12211261)
Why do you think there should be a Union and not a union?

It's because of the freedom of capital movement.

InVinoVeritas Mar 23rd 2017 2:27 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12211015)
I am amazed that you can even think of wasting your obviously superior intellect and knowledge ( just your opinion ) on a forum populated by we mere prolls.

I think the prolls (is that a cross between trolls and proles) are in a significant minority on this forum. Maybe only one :unsure:

Assanah Mar 23rd 2017 2:31 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by la mancha (Post 12211261)
Why do you think there should be a Union and not a union?

Because I am German and the word "Union" in German is written with a capital letter...sorry my mistake.

InVinoVeritas Mar 23rd 2017 2:36 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12211016)
I don't know whether this has been posted before or whether you've come across it yourself but it makes quite interesting reading as an explainer to what's at issue for both sides.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default...ill_3feb17.pdf

Thanks Eric. It looks like both sides have quite a lot there to get their teeth into. If it went to Court, I wouldn't like to predict the result but I guess that would be in neither side's interest.

Fredbargate Mar 23rd 2017 2:41 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12211219)
Or the elites from the hoi polloi ;)

The expats I was friends with in Spain in the 70's are either still here or have moved on to other countries, whilst many of the newer arrivals have returned home.

EMR Mar 23rd 2017 2:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12211273)
I think the prolls (is that a cross between trolls and proles) are in a significant minority on this forum. Maybe only one :unsure:

Don'the get too downhearted there are more of you than you think.
Why do our brexiters have such huge inferiority complexes and fear of debate.

Fredbargate Mar 23rd 2017 2:44 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12211223)
Then explain where you draw the line between the economic and the political Union.

Politics


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