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-   -   Post EU Referendum (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/post-eu-referendum-879308/)

Garbatellamike Mar 22nd 2017 6:39 pm

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12210563)
Not just saying at all - you're intentionally phrasing both matters in a manner you're fully aware is incorrect ;)

nope it's correct - sorry

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 9:03 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12210327)
I do take your point, although this is not always the fault of the journalist. It has been common practice to release the text of a speech to journalists before its delivery actually takes place, always with the caveat that the speech may be changed at the last minute. In the race to be first with news, it gives the politicians a chance to make headlines without actually having to utter the actual words.

I've noticed that Vino but I can pass on a handy tip which I've found works very well in these circumstances.

If something hasn't yet been said, the report will contain certain indicators, such as the use of the future tense, which will make it clear that the speech has yet to be delivered. Here is an example :

Theresa May is expected to use the most important speech of her premiership to confirm that Britain will be leaving the single market while insisting that it wants to remain “the best friend” to European partners.

In remarks that critics will cite as evidence that the government is pursuing a hard Brexit, the prime minister will say there is no option that leaves Britain “half-in, half-out” as she sets out 12 key priorities for the EU negotiations.
There may even be direct quotes but again these should have some sort of indicator to the fact that as yet they haven't been delivered :

“We seek a new and equal partnership – between an independent, self-governing, global Britain and our friends and allies in the EU. Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out,” May is expected to say.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-market-speech

When somebody has already said something, on the other hand, the references will be in the past tense. To use the same excerpt I previously quoted, which you say could have been published prior to the speech :

He said: “We need to remain strong. If not, we will threaten the very principles of the European Union. That could lead to other countries or regions wanting to leave the EU to gain so-called benefits but without any inconvenience or rules.”

President Hollande added: “There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price. Otherwise we will be in a negotiation that cannot end well.”
Brexit: Francois Hollande demands UK pay heavy price for deciding to leave EU | The Independent

Added to which, any reputable news site, if it has for whatever reason published an inaccurate report of what somebody has said would, on having it pointed out to them and verifying that they had erred, publish an amended version of the offending article (suitably annotated to indicate that it had been altered) and withdraw the original.

Hope this helps and if I can be of any further assistance in the reading of newspaper articles, please don't hesitate to mention it.

GeniB Mar 23rd 2017 9:10 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12210211)
But the UK is not taking the shed.

They have paid a lot in that the other members have spent and will retain.

They have also taken a lot out! which they refuse to acknowledge publicly.. kinda spoils their argument to say they got over a Billion euro's to re-build just one city.. That! they had to admit to ..but only recently. How many more 'projects' has their money and money from countries in the EU paid for? Nope.. didn't think you would know.:o

InVinoVeritas Mar 23rd 2017 9:13 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12210987)
I've noticed that Vino but I can pass on a handy tip which I've found works very well in these circumstances.

If something hasn't yet been said, the report will contain certain indicators, such as the use of the future tense, which will make it clear that the speech has yet to be delivered. Here is an example :


There may even be direct quotes but again these should have some sort of indicator to the fact that as yet they haven't been delivered :
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-market-speech

When somebody has already said something, on the other hand, the references will be in the past tense. To use the same excerpt I previously quoted, which you say could have been published prior to the speech :
Brexit: Francois Hollande demands UK pay heavy price for deciding to leave EU | The Independent

Added to which, any reputable news site, if it has for whatever reason published an inaccurate report of what somebody has said would, on having it pointed out to them and verifying that they had erred, publish an amended version of the offending article (suitably annotated to indicate that it had been altered) and withdraw the original.

Hope this helps and if I can be of any further assistance in the reading of newspaper articles, please don't hesitate to mention it.

Thank you so much for your help, Eric. God knows what we'd do without you :sarcasm:

Unfortunately you didn't use any examples from the French press which was what I was referring to with regard to Hollande's remarks in Brussels.

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 9:23 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
My sincere apologies for you not making that clear, Vino.

Do the French not use tenses, then?

EMR Mar 23rd 2017 9:24 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12210995)
Thank you so much for your help, Eric. God knows what we'd do without you :sarcasm:

Unfortunately you didn't use any examples from the French press which was what I was referring to with regard to Hollande's remarks in Brussels.

We read the British press being British.
What would we do with out your linguistic superiority (multiple sarcasm).

InVinoVeritas Mar 23rd 2017 9:27 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12211004)
We read the British press being British.
What would we do with out your linguistic superiority (multiple sarcasm).

I am sure Eric reads the Portuguese press and it's important to have different perspectives on such vital issues. I assume you can only speak English (and, even that, not very well).

EMR Mar 23rd 2017 9:42 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12211008)
I am sure Eric reads the Portuguese press and it's important to have different perspectives on such vital issues. I assume you can only speak English (and, even that, not very well).

I am amazed that you can even think of wasting your obviously superior intellect and knowledge ( just your opinion ) on a forum populated by we mere prolls.

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 9:45 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 12210128)
And now for something completely different...

There seems to be a very wide gap between the EU and the UK on the Brexit "settlement" which the EU has suggested is in the order of €60 billion and the UK suggests should be more like €3 billion.

Without wanting another Brexit vs Remainer feud, I would be interested to know your views on this.

The EU have said the UK should pay its share of commitments/budgets which were agreed whilst the UK was an EU member but which are for a period after the UK has ceased to be an EU member.

This is likely to go to the Hague to be resolved so I assume it is not clearly laid down in any treaty.

The questions which come to my mind are:-

Are these future costs irrevocable or can they be cancelled/revised?

Will the UK benefit from this spend after it has left the EU?

How does this compare with a married couple divorcing when there are, more or less pressing, up-coming expenses related to home and family?

I don't know whether this has been posted before or whether you've come across it yourself but it makes quite interesting reading as an explainer to what's at issue for both sides.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default...ill_3feb17.pdf

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 9:48 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12211015)
I am amazed that you can even think of wasting your obviously superior intellect and knowledge ( just your opinion ) on a forum populated by we mere prolls.

Proles ;)

Fredbargate Mar 23rd 2017 10:44 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by GeniB (Post 12210993)
They have also taken a lot out! which they refuse to acknowledge publicly.. kinda spoils their argument to say they got over a Billion euro's to re-build just one city.. That! they had to admit to ..but only recently. How many more 'projects' has their money and money from countries in the EU paid for? Nope.. didn't think you would know.:o

Considering the number of countries in the EU that are getting benefits from the very few who pay in I very much doubt that the UK has benefited financially from EU subsidies.
Yes we may have benefited from EU labour but I believe much of their earnings were sent home to benefit other countries?

If anyone could point to a balance sheet I think it would be very interesting.

iano Mar 23rd 2017 10:45 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12211016)
I don't know whether this has been posted before or whether you've come across it yourself but it makes quite interesting reading as an explainer to what's at issue for both sides.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default...ill_3feb17.pdf

IIRC the Remain campaigners didn't even mention the potential of a withdrawal charge being made by the EU, yet the FT did, and estimated a figure of £40 billion back in Oct 15.

Cameron and Gideon wouldn't have second guessed figures, obviously, but it does beg the question why the legitimate and potentially hefty EU exit bill for leaving the club, based on the UK's legally binding commitments, wasn't brought into the debate, or put on the side of a bus.

Garbatellamike Mar 23rd 2017 10:51 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12211020)
Proles ;)

excellent semanticist you - well played ;)

Red Eric Mar 23rd 2017 11:00 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 
Thanks (although on this occasion I was performing my duty as an orthographist).

Garbatellamike Mar 23rd 2017 11:14 am

Re: Post EU Referendum
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12211061)
Thanks (although on this occasion I was performing my duty as an orthographist).

probably both in fact ;)


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