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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Oct 2nd 2018, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
.

As were those on the left who supported Prescott and then saw Blair win a substantial majority with his centerist politics..
Politics which did not scare away those of the centre left and floating voters , including millions of previously Tory voters...
Tories to the right, Labour under Corbyn to the left, both a disaster for the UK.
Yes but it's all different this time round.

The surge in membership was boosted by the election of Corbyn (twice, by the way - and against hopeless odds first time round) and the subsequent performance in the election, not (as in your nostalgic recollections of yesteryear) in the vain hope of getting him elected as leader.

Nobody sensible from the centre left is going to run scared of Labour led by Corbyn - only the right-of-centre whose noses are stuck firmly between the arse-cheeks-masquerading-as-newspaper of Rupert etc. Concentrating too much on Corbyn is distracting you from being objective about what's happening at the base, where there's a fundamental desire for change. Corbyn merely reflects and enacts that - rather successfully, if I might say so. He's certainly brought an air of civility to UK politics, as he promised he would. Always a man of his word. Helps that he has the manner of an ordinary, decent bloke, to boot. And a beard. Very popular, beards. Shame it isn't a ginger one.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

BORIS. A very rousing speech, I think the Maybot might have a mutiny on her hands. Who needs the EU when the mighty Peru beckons. I can see why the punters fall for the the world is Britain's oyster fantasy and bullied Brittania claptrap when elucidated by one as skilled as Boris, but it isn't reality. Let the leadership games commence.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Yes but it's all different this time round.

The surge in membership was boosted by the election of Corbyn (twice, by the way - and against hopeless odds first time round) and the subsequent performance in the election, not (as in your nostalgic recollections of yesteryear) in the vain hope of getting him elected as leader.

Nobody sensible from the centre left is going to run scared of Labour led by Corbyn - only the right-of-centre whose noses are stuck firmly between the arse-cheeks-masquerading-as-newspaper of Rupert etc. Concentrating too much on Corbyn is distracting you from being objective about what's happening at the base, where there's a fundamental desire for change. Corbyn merely reflects and enacts that - rather successfully, if I might say so. He's certainly brought an air of civility to UK politics, as he promised he would. Always a man of his word. Helps that he has the manner of an ordinary, decent bloke, to boot. And a beard. Very popular, beards. Shame it isn't a ginger one.
Civility like his jackbooted Momentum thugs throwing bricks through windows and threatening MPs with deselection if they don't toe their new party line?

The only surge around Corbyn is in the underpants of his marxist supporters as they sing "oh, Jeremy Corbyn" at Glasto.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
I didn’t dismiss it - I said it was one of the factors but certainly not the only one and probably not even a major one. I should also add the relative buoyancy of the UK economy and the GBP-PLN exchange rate at any particular moment. When the economy wasn’t doing so well after the 2008 crash and the value of the pound dropped many Poles returned home as working in the UK was not as worthwhile as it has been.

Cameron tried and failed to reduce the availability of benefits during his supposed renegotiation. You could reduce the amount of benefits available but you would have to apply it to all, not just EU migrants.
I think they introduced a three month claim exemption period (applying to any newcomer including returning Brits) some time back, conditions like that can exert a modicum of control. Of course as a Remainer I'm not against EU immigration, I'm just saying there were/are tools at the government disposal to bend policy. Your point on exchange rates also supports the notion that EU immigration is not at unsustainable levels.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:15 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Civility like his jackbooted Momentum thugs throwing bricks through windows and threatening MPs with deselection if they don't toe their new party line?

The only surge around Corbyn is in the underpants of his marxist supporters as they sing "oh, Jeremy Corbyn" at Glasto.
Yes, very worrying that. (The thugs/bricks, not the underpants.)
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:18 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
BORIS. A very rousing speech, I think the Maybot might have a mutiny on her hands. Who needs the EU when the mighty Peru beckons. I can see why the punters fall for the the world is Britain's oyster fantasy and bullied Brittania claptrap when elucidated by one as skilled as Boris, but it isn't reality. Let the leadership games commence.

I can't find any evidence that Boris gives a damn about the country. He likes attention, power and privilege.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:25 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I would - English speakers already speak the global language and don't need to learn another one to get-by when travelling for holidays or work - Germans, French, Spanish, Latvian, Polish, etc etc cannot rely on using their native tongue for international travel or work, hence have a far greater incentive to learn another language - which is mostly English.

I don't think it's inherent laziness, it's a logical lack of incentive - I don't think Germans speak English because of their lack of laziness, they do so because it is the global language and helps them in their international travel regardless of the country they are going-to. Things like Hollywood and music also help drive English knowledge, it always surprises me in Spain even outside the major towns one often sees advert straplines in English - you don't see that in the UK in Spanish (or German, or Polish, etc etc).
Still, even with that, according to another expert on Europe, they're still technically "illiterate arseholes". So, apparently it doesn't really matter anyway.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I can't find any evidence that Boris gives a damn about the country. He likes attention, power and privilege.
Yes, his Brexit outrage is just a means to secure personal power. Nevertheless, it resonates with many of the anti-EU brigade, and will spur them on.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 3:42 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think they introduced a three month claim exemption period (applying to any newcomer including returning Brits) some time back, conditions like that can exert a modicum of control. Of course as a Remainer I'm not against EU immigration, I'm just saying there were/are tools at the government disposal to bend policy. Your point on exchange rates also supports the notion that EU immigration is not at unsustainable levels.
As you say the Habitual Residence Test does prevent you from immediately claiming certain benefits, but it applies to returning British citizens as well. Crucially it does not apply to EU citizens who are employed or self-employed. That is covered in a separate ‘right to reside’ test introduced on the same day that the A8 countries acceded to the EU. Since the vast majority of A8 citizens came here to work, not claim £70 a week JSA, I still don’t see how that would help reduce numbers.

Sustainability is also more than just whether there are sufficient vacancies, but raises broader questions of wage suppression, low productivity rates, public service provision and social cohesion to name a few.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
As you say the Habitual Residence Test does prevent you from immediately claiming certain benefits, but it applies to returning British citizens as well. Crucially it does not apply to EU citizens who are employed or self-employed. That is covered in a separate ‘right to reside’ test introduced on the same day that the A8 countries acceded to the EU. Since the vast majority of A8 citizens came here to work, not claim £70 a week JSA, I still don’t see how that would help reduce numbers.

Sustainability is also more than just whether there are sufficient vacancies, but raises broader questions of wage suppression, low productivity rates, public service provision and social cohesion to name a few.
It 'helps' because it places more of a self-financing burden on a European jobseeker when they first arrive.

Nobody is coming here for £70 pw. The unskilled workers may be claiming JSA (whether they are working or not) but many will also claim housing benefit and other in-work benefits, and it all adds up to a financial incentive.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 6:26 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Civility like his jackbooted Momentum thugs throwing bricks through windows and threatening MPs with deselection if they don't toe their new party line?
Smells mostly like more arse-cheeks to me.

For a start-off, Momentum aren't "his" even if they do currently support his leadership of the party. Here, have some background reading for a bit of insight as to what's actually going on - a rare specimen indeed.

Momentum’s Laura Parker: ‘There’s a myth around the hard left’s dirty tactics – it’s not my experience’
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 6:34 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
BORIS. A very rousing speech, I think the Maybot might have a mutiny on her hands. Who needs the EU when the mighty Peru beckons. I can see why the punters fall for the the world is Britain's oyster fantasy and bullied Brittania claptrap when elucidated by one as skilled as Boris, but it isn't reality. Let the leadership games commence.


I know the Tories are plumbing new depths every day, what with the strenuous efforts of their more public faces to outdo each other on offensive anti-EU rhetoric but surely even they, as a party, wouldn't be doo-lally enough to put de Pfeffle on the candidate slip.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 7:16 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It 'helps' because it places more of a self-financing burden on a European jobseeker when they first arrive.
Evidently not enough given the millions of EU nationals that have come to the UK.

Nobody is coming here for £70 pw. The unskilled workers may be claiming JSA (whether they are working or not) but many will also claim housing benefit and other in-work benefits, and it all adds up to a financial incentive.
It does but as good if not better benefits can be found elsewhere in Western and Northern Europe. For example the child benefit rate is more than twice as high in Germany as it is in the UK. Even if your thesis is correct I’m not sure what you are proposing to do about it.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

All of this simply illustrates that should the UK feel averse to the number of immigrants, then perhaps it might consider implementing the tools available to it to minimise both the numbers, and the [allegedly] negative effects of it, while continuing to leverage that key labour pool, and all the other benefits it receives as an EU member state. Much like, say Germany, who consistently runs circles around Britain, despite being an EU member.
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Old Oct 2nd 2018, 7:48 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
All of this simply illustrates that should the UK feel averse to the number of immigrants, then perhaps it might consider implementing the tools available to it to minimise both the numbers, and the [allegedly] negative effects of it, while continuing to leverage that key labour pool, and all the other benefits it receives as an EU member state. Much like, say Germany, who consistently runs circles around Britain, despite being an EU member.
Why would the UK want to be like Germany?
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