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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:48 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Absolutely. Spoiling ballots achieves nothing.
But to the person who spoiled their ballot, they achieved something by exercising their democratic right to vote. Sometimes you are asked to vote on something and perhaps given 3 choices. What if you don't like any of the choices? Don't vote or pick the choice that causes you least discomfort. In some elections, the number of spoilt ballots signal the displeasure of the voters and might just might get the Governing body to think about what they are doing or going to do.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:50 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
As EMR said, in June 2016:

- NHS
- Turkey
- refugee crisis
spooked many voters to vote Leave.

Next referendum the misguided and ill-informed proportion of voters will be lower. Probably much lower.
I'm not too sure about that. Loads of people read the daily ''hate against the EU'' mail(s) and believe them.
They might not believe the above reasons any more, but the EU is EVIL ...
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:52 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Within the context of this discussion, everything references the vote result.

If you're confused about the context of the terms "people" or "voters", that's your problem.
Which voting result? The referendum? Mp's vote in parliament? Government vote at Chequer's or elsewhere?

In any case, the use of people or voter may be interchangeable to you, and true in some circumstances because for both your statements of fact would be false as already shown.

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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:52 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
But to the person who spoiled their ballot, they achieved something by exercising their democratic right to vote. Sometimes you are asked to vote on something and perhaps given 3 choices. What if you don't like any of the choices? Don't vote or pick the choice that causes you least discomfort. In some elections, the number of spoilt ballots signal the displeasure of the voters and might just might get the Governing body to think about what they are doing or going to do.
You should always vote for the choice that gives you the least discomfort. People who spoil ballot papers or don't bother to vote have no right to an opinion.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:58 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Which voting result? The referendum? Mp's vote in parliament? Government vote at Chequer's or elsewhere?

In any case, the use of people or voter may be interchangeable to you, and true in some circumstances because for both your statements of fact would be false as already shown.
The thread is full of material if you want to continue isolating statements from context. Crack on girl, knock yourself out.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:06 am
  #7761  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You should always vote for the choice that gives you the least discomfort. People who spoil ballot papers or don't bother to vote have no right to an opinion.
Opinions are like an anus everybody has one. Some might disagree with you others might support this stance. I will give my opinion regardless.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:06 am
  #7762  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
I'm not too sure about that. Loads of people read the daily ''hate against the EU'' mail(s) and believe them.
They might not believe the above reasons any more, but the EU is EVIL ...
Yes their is a hardcore anti-EU vote, but my guess is that it's a minority, well under 50%. In the first referendum there must have been many who were spooked and many who where "why not" voters. Given that parliament itself is in deadlock, it seems so obvious to ask the people again.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:07 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
....You don't live in the real world, Shard. Humans make flawed and emotional decisions all the time.....
You're right, they do in the 'real world', often when buying a house from a dodgy salesman. That's why most pay for a survey, and then go for a second viewing armed with the survey results.

Nobody would suggest a second viewing to be a 'betrayal' of the first, especially after subsidence, dry rot and a leaking roof become evident. Common sense really.

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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You don't live in the real world, Shard. Humans make flawed and emotional decisions all the time. Far more realistic to adjust your expectations to suit that reality than vainly trying to impose logic and order on everything.
Dangerous nonsense.

Yes - people frequently make flawed and emotional decisions based upon superstition, faith, stupidity, lies, lack of education - all sorts of reasons. But to give in to it or 'adjust my expectations to suit that reality' is utter folly.

If we did that we would still be burning witches.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:11 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes their is a hardcore anti-EU vote, but my guess is that it's a minority, well under 50%. In the first referendum there must have been many who were spooked and many who where "why not" voters. Given that parliament itself is in deadlock, it seems so obvious to ask the people again.
Yes, if Parliament is allowed 2 votes within weeks then surely the country should be allowed another vote after discussing FACTS not FICTION during 3 years.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:14 am
  #7766  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Leave the EU as planned on 29th March. It's what the public voted for and it's what parliament voted for, based on that referendum result.
Try living in the real world. As far as I am aware that avenue is closed.

So how (in the real world) would you break the deadlock?
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:16 am
  #7767  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by iano View Post
You're right, they do in the 'real world', often when buying a house from a dodgy salesman. That's why most pay for a survey, and then go for a second viewing armed with the survey results.

Nobody would suggest a second viewing to be a 'betrayal' of the first, especially after subsidence, dry rot and a leaking roof become evident. Common sense really.

Correct. And nobody would be asking for a second referendum if the first one were more reliable. If Leave had won 55% or 60%. That wider margin would better subsume ill-informed and mislead voters. There is a reason for wanting a second referendum, it's not simply dismissing the result and having another go.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:17 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Here's a great quote

"the claim that 17.4 million who voted leave in 2016 knew what they were voting for cannot, by definition, be true since what it meant was not defined until long afterwards."
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:22 am
  #7769  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Here's a great quote

"the claim that 17.4 million who voted leave in 2016 knew what they were voting for cannot, by definition, be true since what it meant was not defined until long afterwards."
Is it even defined now ?!

I think the Leavers were voting for "change" and that can be many things to many people. The three big ones, FOM, sovereignty, trade will each have a different priority for each person, and I imagine that if pushed an ardent Leaver would settle for just 2 of 3 being implemented.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Is it even defined now ?!

I think the Leavers were voting for "change" and that can be many things to many people. The three big ones, FOM, sovereignty, trade will each have a different priority for each person, and I imagine that if pushed an ardent Leaver would settle for just 2 of 3 being implemented.
One could argue the WA defines Brexit (at the moment).
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