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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:15 am
  #7741  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
LOL.

It's just to break the deadlock.
You don't really care about the means though Shard, do you? All you care about is the end, if it results in the Leave vote being frustrated.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:18 am
  #7742  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The fact hasn't changed - more people want out than want in, and you are unable to counter that.

All you're achieving is making yourself look extremely petty and superficial by arguing about definitions.
I already stated what you intended - 52% of those that voted in the referendum voted to leave the EU - it's not difficult to clearly state.

There is not enough evidence to state as a fact that more people want out than in. Not everyone eligible voted, not everyone with a stake in the outcome could vote.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:20 am
  #7743  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The fact hasn't changed - more people want out than want in, and you are unable to counter that.

All you're achieving is making yourself look extremely petty and superficial by arguing about definitions.
As EMR said, in June 2016:

- NHS
- Turkey
- refugee crisis
spooked many voters to vote Leave.

Next referendum the misguided and ill-informed proportion of voters will be lower. Probably much lower.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:20 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You don't really care about the means though Shard, do you? All you care about is the end, if it results in the Leave vote being frustrated.
So how would you propose that the deadlock is solved?
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:21 am
  #7745  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
I already stated what you intended - 52% of those that voted in the referendum voted to leave the EU - it's not difficult to clearly state.

There is not enough evidence to state as a fact that more people want out than in. Not everyone eligible voted, not everyone with a stake in the outcome could vote.
An entirely predictable response. Your first paragraph renders the second one entirely moot.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:25 am
  #7746  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You don't really care about the means though Shard, do you? All you care about is the end, if it results in the Leave vote being frustrated.
Not so. If parliament voted Leave under my secret ballot I would accept it. If a second referendum returned Leave I would accept it. I will accept informed decisions even if they are different from my own.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:25 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
So how would you propose that the deadlock is solved?
Leave the EU as planned on 29th March. It's what the public voted for and it's what parliament voted for, based on that referendum result.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:29 am
  #7748  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
An entirely predictable response. Your first paragraph renders the second one entirely moot.
In what way is it moot? You stated as fact that more people want out than in. Even assuming you are only referring to UK citizens, there is not enough information to declare that as fact for the reasons given.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Not so. If parliament voted Leave under my secret ballot I would accept it. If a second referendum returned Leave I would accept it. I will accept informed decisions even if they are different from my own.
You don't live in the real world, Shard. Humans make flawed and emotional decisions all the time. Far more realistic to adjust your expectations to suit that reality than vainly trying to impose logic and order on everything.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:29 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
First it's elitist rule and disbarring all the "thickos", now you want sealed votes taking place behind closed doors.
They do exist -

​​​​​​
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Leave the EU as planned on 29th March. It's what the public voted for and it's what parliament voted for, based on that referendum result.
Then lobby the ultra brexiters, the DUP to accept Mays deal because that is the only chance you have.
Where is the clamour against brexit ultras and their allies who have blocked leaving.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:35 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Then lobby the ultra brexiters, the DUP to accept Mays deal because that is the only chance you have.
Where is the clamour against brexit ultras and their allies who have blocked leaving.
Indeed. Close to 2/3 against May's deal in December.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:38 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
In what way is it moot? You stated as fact that more people want out than in. Even assuming you are only referring to UK citizens, there is not enough information to declare that as fact for the reasons given.
It's a moot point because your premise that people who for whatever reason didn't take part in the vote, should have any relevance, is a faulty one.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:42 am
  #7754  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
It's a moot point because your premise that people who for whatever reason didn't take part in the vote, should have any relevance, is a faulty one.
It's a moot point when referencing the referendum result, but that wasn't what you declared as fact.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
It's a moot point when referencing the referendum result, but that wasn't what you declared as fact.
Within the context of this discussion, everything references the vote result.

If you're confused about the context of the terms "people" or "voters", that's your problem.
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