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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:21 am
  #7726  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post


You've been disputing the cold hard fact that 52% of voters want to dump the EU for the best part of 3 years, Shard.

Yes, indeed. Not a fact because leave is not a clear choice, and because the misinformation skewed the vote. It will be sorted in due course.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Removed by who? The current Labour Party are an embarrassment and none of the other parties are significant enough to affect anything.
The 9 DUP would disagree with you,
A few stuck in the past Brexit mps stopping the UK leaving the EU..
Where is the clamour from our brexiters against those Brexit mps who have contributed to the mess we find ourselves in.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:25 am
  #7728  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Yes it is. The referendum result didn't lie.
Lie is not the right term. The result was clear, but whether the result reliably reflects what the population actually wants is a different issue. I contend that it doesn't (for various reasons) others are entitled to contend that it does. In any case, the mood and awareness of the population changes over time. Another poll will sort this out.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:25 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Yes it is. The referendum result didn't lie.
The referendum result may have been 52% leave but that wasn't what you said.

....52% of voters want to dump the EU....
At the time of the referendum, 46.5 million were eligible to vote, of which 33.6 million voted, and 17.5 million voted leave which may be 52% of those voting, but is not 52% of voters.but 38%.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:28 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes, indeed. Not a fact because leave is not a clear choice, and because the misinformation skewed the vote. It will be sorted in due course.
​Some facts are more inconvenient than others, aren't they?
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:29 am
  #7731  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Given that the divides are across party lines, what matters is working with what can command a majority in Parliament rather than which party the individual MP belongs to. Parliament isn't there simply to rubber-stamp whatever the government comes up with. Currently, nothing commands a majority and if the stalemate continues, something has to be done to break it. An election could resolve that.

It's difficult at the moment to see the whole matter being resolved without some form of further public consultation. The government doesn't appear to have clear public support for its current proposals.
I think giving parliament a undisclosed vote would resolve it easily and quickly. MPs free to vote any way they see fit, with recording of their vote to be hidden for say 20 years. They're an informed bunch and could decide what's best for the country.

Question would be: deal, no deal, remain.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:31 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
The referendum result may have been 52% leave but that wasn't what you said.



At the time of the referendum, 46.5 million were eligible to vote, of which 33.6 million voted, and 17.5 million voted leave which may be 52% of those voting, but is not 52% of voters.but 38%.
Well Ms Pedant, I completely disregard those who didn't vote for whatever reason. They're irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:34 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think giving parliament a undisclosed vote would resolve it easily and quickly. MPs free to vote any way they see fit, with recording of their vote to be hidden for say 20 years. They're an informed bunch and could decide what's best for the country.

Question would be: deal, no deal, remain.
First it's elitist rule and disbarring all the "thickos", now you want sealed votes taking place behind closed doors.

Not really cricket is it, old boy?
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:39 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Well Ms Pedant, I completely disregard those who didn't vote for whatever reason. They're irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.
So as it has been suggested large numbers of those who voted leave because of the NHS lie or the lies that the UK would be overun with millions of Turks and refugees or just brexit fatigue stayed at home and the Remain vote numbers were the same or increased you would be happy to brand the stay at home leavers as irrelevant..
Some how I doubt it.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:44 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
So as it has been suggested large numbers of those who voted leave because of the NHS lie or the lies that the UK would be overun with millions of Turks and refugees or just brexit fatigue stayed at home and the Remain vote numbers were the same or increased you would be happy to brand the stay at home leavers as irrelevant..
Some how I doubt it.
What the hell are you going on about? Everyone who stays at home and doesn't bother voting is irrelevant.

No vote = no voice = your opinion doesn't count.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:50 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
What the hell are you going on about? Everyone who stays at home and doesn't bother voting is irrelevant.

No vote = no voice = your opinion doesn't count.
What about those who choose to spoil their ballots? If I went to a polling booth and voted for Darth Vader on my ballot slip would I be irrelevant?
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:52 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
What about those who choose to spoil their ballots? If I went to a polling booth and voted for Darth Vader on my ballot slip would I be irrelevant?
Absolutely. Spoiling ballots achieves nothing.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 9:53 am
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Well Ms Pedant, I completely disregard those who didn't vote for whatever reason. They're irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion.
Those that didn't vote in the referendum may be irrelevant to you, but they are still eligible voters and if you wanted to exclude them from the point you were making, then perhaps you would have done better to state that, especially when declaring it to be fact!
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:10 am
  #7739  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Those that didn't vote in the referendum may be irrelevant to you, but they are still eligible voters and if you wanted to exclude them from the point you were making, then perhaps you would have done better to state that, especially when declaring it to be fact!
The fact hasn't changed - more people want out than want in, and you are unable to counter that.

All you're achieving is making yourself look extremely petty and superficial by arguing about definitions.
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Old Mar 9th 2019, 10:11 am
  #7740  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
First it's elitist rule and disbarring all the "thickos", now you want sealed votes taking place behind closed doors.

Not really cricket is it, old boy?
LOL.

It's just to break the deadlock.
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