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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Sep 20th 2018, 9:56 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I have no problem with the idea of Irish reunification but if and when that happens, it's going to be a long way off. For now, a hard border seems like the best solution IMHO.
That's what I'm saying, maybe it need not be a long way off. A hard border is ruled out by both Britain and Ireland so it hardly seems a solution.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 9:59 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
You say 'at this point' ---"Ireland feels more European than Britain"---remember Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty and were bribed by the EU to hold a second referendum! The people may possibly feel differently from the present Government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-unlawful.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-Treaty.html
I'm fairly sure Ireland is thanking its lucky stars that it stayed in the EU. Look at the prosperity it has enjoyed and the social modernisation.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 10:04 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It could do I suppose but it isn't one right now so far as I am aware. If it ever became a hotbed of Crystal Meth labs or Cocaine dens then the whole border situation would need to be revised anyway.
I wasn't referring to that sort of goods.

Even while inside the EU, the UK is seen as a weak spot for customs checks, acting as a funnel for dumping in the EU. Once it is out, signing up to unregulated goods from all over the world and enacting the bonfire of bureaucratic regulations Fox & co are touting, it could be even more of a worry for the EU in terms of acting as a loop for goods entering via the UK and laundered via the NI / ROI. Add to that the fact that some prominent members of government are going about boasting of how quickly the UK can break any agreements it makes and its hardly surprising the EU is treading carefully and wants some guarantees over the way things work in the future.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 10:08 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's what I'm saying, maybe it need not be a long way off. A hard border is ruled out by both Britain and Ireland so it hardly seems a solution.
​​​​​​
It would take years if not decades to happen and the would be more difficult and costly to orchestrate than Brexit. And that's if (and it's a big if) the overwhelming majority of people in both countries actually wanted it and both countries were willing to negotiate it.

It's all a load of quasi-religious Catholic versus Protestant bollocks anyway. It has very little to do with liberation or democracy.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 10:10 am
  #50  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm fairly sure Ireland is thanking its lucky stars that it stayed in the EU. Look at the prosperity it has enjoyed and the social modernisation.
Are you being sarcastic? It's never looked all that prosperous to me although it undoubtedly looks like the more civilised and modern part of Ireland, that's certainly true.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Sep 20th 2018 at 10:14 am.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 10:13 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
You say 'at this point' ---"Ireland feels more European than Britain"---remember Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty and were bribed by the EU to hold a second referendum! The people may possibly feel differently from the present Government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-unlawful.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-Treaty.html
Doesn't surprise me. The EU has very little interest in democracy, especially when that democracy might go against the financial or power interests of its own cadres.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 11:43 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

So it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate to the level of the two referendum threads.

I'm out.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 12:19 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
So it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate to the level of the two referendum threads.

I'm out.
Funny - I thought the self-same thing at post #5 :
Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Sad losers still having childish tantrums because a vote didn't go their way two years ago and they cannot man up and adapt to a change in circumstances.
Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post

That's what I think will happen (and the evidence for it is right here in this thread as well as others on BE and different areas of the internet).
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 12:26 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
You say 'at this point' ---"Ireland feels more European than Britain"---remember Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty and were bribed by the EU to hold a second referendum! The people may possibly feel differently from the present Government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-unlawful.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-Treaty.html
Actually, Ireland were offered opt-outs. Does that mean the UK 's opt-outs over the years were also bribes?
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 12:56 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
So it didn't take long for this thread to degenerate to the level of the two referendum threads.

I'm out.
It's just a diversion until some real news happens on the deals. Latest news is that Macron wants to take a hard-line against Theresa's plans. I'm for that. I'm beginning to think the UK should be pushed to the point where it has No Deal or Remain.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 12:58 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Actually, Ireland were offered opt-outs. Does that mean the UK 's opt-outs over the years were also bribes?
Good point. So much talk of Britain having to kowtow to Brussels, whereas in reality, we HAD a pretty bespoke membership plan.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 1:32 pm
  #57  
 
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

The Irish border will be a problem so long as it suits the EU. Barnier has already backtracked now he's realised that no UK PM, particularly a Tory one, is going allow a border down the Irish sea.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 1:32 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm beginning to think the UK should be pushed to the point where it has No Deal or Remain.
So in other words, the least democratic option possible.

In any other country on Earth, a lot of people in this thread would be branded traitors for the kind of anti-UK and pro-EU/everyone else sentiment that they come out with.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 1:55 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
In any other country on Earth, a lot of people in this thread would be branded traitors for the kind of anti-UK and pro-EU/everyone else sentiment that they come out with.
What a peculiar statement. Apart from anything else, the word "traitor" seems to have been bandied about quite a lot over one thing or another since the Brexit vote, so it's certainly not an anywhere but the UK thing. In fact (at risk of drawing an accusation of Brit-hating upon myself), the UK at this time is probably one of the few places where such sentiment could be quite so readily invoked over normal processes or discussions.

I'd go and have a little lie down if I were you.
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Old Sep 20th 2018, 2:04 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
What a peculiar statement. Apart from anything else, the word "traitor" seems to have been bandied about quite a lot over one thing or another since the Brexit vote, so it's certainly not an anywhere but the UK thing. In fact (at risk of drawing an accusation of Brit-hating upon myself), the UK at this time is probably one of the few places where such sentiment could be quite so readily invoked over normal processes or discussions.

I'd go and have a little lie down if I were you.
Anybody who would happily see their own country perish or suffer at the hands of another country or group is, by definition, a traitor.
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