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Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Old Oct 21st 2018, 8:51 pm
  #1651  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Fair enough, but ... what did the opinion polls say BEFORE the Brexit vote ...? I seem to recall, a large 'remain' sentiment.
Yes, also true. I grant that fact.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 8:54 pm
  #1652  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Fair enough, but ... what did the opinion polls say BEFORE the Brexit vote ...? I seem to recall, a large 'remain' sentiment.
Yes, quite true. Polls don’t always reflect outcomes, especially when so close. But the YouGov polls suggest a wider percentage has moved over to Remain in a potential 2nd referendum. (Sorry for the double post.)

Last edited by Richard8655; Oct 21st 2018 at 9:04 pm.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 9:09 pm
  #1653  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
It's not a shambles, only in the triggered remainiac minds.
It could be progressing quicker and with more clarity, but that's the problem of having remainers in charge of leaving and having a powerful elitist remainer 5th column lobby working with the EU to subvert the vote.
In which case, please tell us your defintion of a shambles.
Oh, and this-here 5th column... when did you first see it? Does it always look the same, talk to you ....say the same things?
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 9:11 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Richard8655 View Post
Yes, also true. I grant that fact.
Er - not a fact, as pointed out above. The polls showed no clear advantage between those who expressed a preference. The "the polls are never right" line has been regularly trawled since the referendum in order to neutralise the possibility of them showing a change of heart.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Er - not a fact, as pointed out above. The polls showed no clear advantage between those who expressed a preference. The "the polls are never right" line has been regularly trawled since the referendum in order to neutralise the possibility of them showing a change of heart.
The failure of the polls to predict both Brexit and Trump is somewhat well accepted, though I have seen information suggesting otherwise. That polls are conducted largely by making telephone calls to land-lines suggests to me they cannot possibly be relied upon. It also seems that when there are 'controversial' votes (which applies to Brexit and Trump), people don't seem to respond accurately to polls. I personally followed the Trump election like a hawk, reading the polls closely. I went to bed early on election night convinced Trump had lost, based on polls.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 9:35 pm
  #1656  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Er - not a fact, as pointed out above. The polls showed no clear advantage between those who expressed a preference. The "the polls are never right" line has been regularly trawled since the referendum in order to neutralise the possibility of them showing a change of heart.
On this complex and emotive issue I don't know how useful a poll would actually be. It would have to be the actual poll (referendum) to truly reflect movement. If the Leavers were confident they'd be saying bring it on. As it happens they know only too well that it was a fluke result in 2016.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:14 pm
  #1657  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
On this complex and emotive issue I don't know how useful a poll would actually be. It would have to be the actual poll (referendum) to truly reflect movement. If the Leavers were confident they'd be saying bring it on. As it happens they know only too well that it was a fluke result in 2016.
I'm not sure the result was a fluke. The UK has always seemed very Eurosceptic to me. As a presumably committed Remain voter, what has been your experience of talking to other people in Britain about the EU?
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:25 pm
  #1658  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Says he for whom everyone else is petulant. Such irony.

Whether you're a fan of referendums or not is irrelevant. We had one, and there's an outside possibility of another. The question is designed to make you think, but if you don't have the capacity to do so, I won't hold it against you. You're set in your ways and see things in black and white, and that's fine.
Yet more ad-hom, very impressive.

You're not the ringmaster, not everyone has to dance to your tune - whether it be here or with brexit you reek entitlement.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The UK has always seemed very Eurosceptic to me.
Certain populist newspapers and loud people, yes. If it were true of the people, surely it should have been a resounding vote to leave, if not a majority of the electorate, at least of those who voted, rather than the close vote it was.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
In which case, please tell us your defintion of a shambles.
Oh, and this-here 5th column... when did you first see it? Does it always look the same, talk to you ....say the same things?
It's merely a negotiation - they always have ups and downs, especially political ones. Remainers like to call it a "shambles" as some sort of justification as to why it should all be called-off.

If we had a leaver in-charge we would already be done and everything would be clear.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
The UK has always seemed very Eurosceptic to me.
The UK media has tended to be Eurosceptic, or Euro-ambivalent at the least. There's never been a serious attempt over the last 25+ years to encourage Brits to understand what we went into when we joined the EU. Instead, all we've had are the negatives (many perceived) from media and politicians.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Certain populist newspapers and loud people, yes. If it were true of the people, surely it should have been a resounding vote to leave, if not a majority of the electorate, at least of those who voted, rather than the close vote it was.
Project fear did a good job of scaring many to vote to remain.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:38 pm
  #1663  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You're not the ringmaster, not everyone has to dance to your tune....
Ooh, that compares favourably with Bobby Robson's comment that he had plenty of irons in the fire but he was keeping them close to his chest. I like mixed metaphors and related things.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Project fear did a good job of scaring many to vote to remain.
I could have sworn your previous comments were not so charitable towards the remain campaigners. Now you commend them?
Marvellous how they cancelled out decades of indoctrination from the media.
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:38 pm
  #1664  
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
It's merely a negotiation - they always have ups and downs, especially political ones. Remainers like to call it a "shambles" as some sort of justification as to why it should all be called-off.

If we had a leaver in-charge we would already be done and everything would be clear.
Never seen or heard of bigger shambles during negotiations, all thanks to weak and wobbly May's inability to be a ''bloody difficult woman''.
I've said it before, she jumped in with her red lines without thinking any further and look at the mess it is now.
If every negotiation will go like this the UK is on the road to nowhere.
Don't forget, this lot has to conquer the world to get all these shiny new trade deals. Good luck !

Which leaver did you have in mind ? Bojo ? DD ? Farage himeself ?
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Old Oct 21st 2018, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Politics of Chequers, No Deal, etc

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Project fear did a good job of scaring many to vote to remain.
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