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Police state

Police state

Old Oct 18th 2020, 12:01 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I don't see a Guardian paywall, but they are constantly badgering for donations. And that's after I even made a donation. There's also the guilt trip splash screen that reminds me that I've read 997 articles in the last year.
I had a paywall pop up yesterday - but gone today.

No guilt trip though - so all good
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 12:13 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
I had a paywall pop up yesterday - but gone today.

No guilt trip though - so all good
Really? On Guardian ?!! Maybe it's Rupert up to some jiggery-pokery !
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 12:55 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
I had a paywall pop up yesterday - but gone today.

No guilt trip though - so all good
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Really? On Guardian ?!! Maybe it's Rupert up to some jiggery-pokery !
There's an appeal that pops up from time to time but the X on the top right closes it.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 12:58 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I still can not work out what the stats mean, that these people died of Covid or died and tested positive for Covid?
I believe the answer to that question is "yes".
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 1:11 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I don't see a Guardian paywall, but they are constantly badgering for donations. And that's after I even made a donation. There's also the guilt trip splash screen that reminds me that I've read 997 articles in the last year.
Have you checked that you’re logged in, when you are in the Guardian? I’m logged in (i.e. I’m seeing a “my account” link at the top of the page) and I never see the request for donations.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 1:59 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Have you checked that you’re logged in, when you are in the Guardian? I’m logged in (i.e. I’m seeing a “my account” link at the top of the page) and I never see the request for donations.
Good advice. I wasn't, but I am now. I'll keep an eye on the donations splash, see if it comes back. Thanks.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 3:23 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I believe the answer to that question is "yes".


That is what I thought. I nearly became an Actuary which would probably have been even more boring than what I did go into. The lack of clarity on the numbers etc is frustrating.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 3:30 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Have you checked that you’re logged in, when you are in the Guardian? I’m logged in (i.e. I’m seeing a “my account” link at the top of the page) and I never see the request for donations.
I get them all the time, quite amusing that they have an off shore trust fund. There COVID coverage is interesting, half seems to be about the downsides of the lockdowns and the other half about the need for stringent lockdowns.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 4:11 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Have you checked that you’re logged in, when you are in the Guardian? I’m logged in (i.e. I’m seeing a “my account” link at the top of the page) and I never see the request for donations.
I'm logged in and still getting them. It's just a phase where they try to raise contributions for a bit and then it's over. Funny how in some eyes that's 'worse' than charging.
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Old Oct 18th 2020, 7:53 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Police state

Guardian.

Noticed at the bottom of an article (now that I'm logged in) that there's an option to be reminded about contributions by a single email in November. Clicked that.
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Old Oct 19th 2020, 12:19 am
  #41  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Guardian.

Noticed at the bottom of an article (now that I'm logged in) that there's an option to be reminded about contributions by a single email in November. Clicked that.
All Emails Matter!
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Old Oct 19th 2020, 12:39 am
  #42  
 
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
I had a paywall pop up yesterday - but gone today.

No guilt trip though - so all good
Not so much a paywall, as a request to leave a tip.
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Old Oct 19th 2020, 1:58 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not so much a paywall, as a request to leave a tip.
No, I def got a paywall - couldn't read the story without signing up to a subscription.

All good since - very weird???
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Old Oct 19th 2020, 2:12 am
  #44  
 
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I'm all for establishing some trade-off parameters. If the IFR is a stable 0.4% and the deaths were of the order 80,000, that's may be a debateable number. If it's 0.8% and the infection runs to 70%, perhaps a different story. At this point we are 6 months into what could be an epidemic lasting a few years. We don't know if a vaccine will be effective (once discovered, and once produced); we don't know what proportion of the population will refuse it; we don't know if the virus will mutate; we don't know the impact of Long Covid. Under such uncertainty, a high suppression strategy makes sense.

Britain, Europe, America have already invited huge health and economic damage by taking a laissez faire approach in February and March. That's why we have tens of thousands of deaths (hundreds of thousands in the US) compared to mere hundreds in East Asian countries. Ditching suppression measures again will only worsen our situation.​​​
Under those circumstances a high suppression strategy will only prolong the agony. This, of course, was the original justification of the lockdown in March - we needed to 'flatten the curve' for three weeks to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed from an influx of patients that never occurred - but turning it into a semi-permanent state of affairs will only increase the overall number of deaths in the long term.

The East Asian nations you presume you refer to - Taiwan, Singapore - learned from their experience of SARS, slamming their borders shut and pursuing an aggressive contact tracing programme as soon as local cases appeared, which is something you could never do in a Western liberal democracy before it was already too late to be effective.

The primary reason why the death rates have been so high in certain Western countries is that they all failed to protect their elderly, emptying hospital wards and thus sending the transmission rate for those in residential care soaring, based on the mistaken assumption that COVID-19 would hospitalise a far broader age spectrum. We were preparing for the next 'flu pandemic rather than the next SARS outbreak. The median age of a swine flu victim in the UK was 39 - it's 82 for COVID-19.
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Old Oct 19th 2020, 2:29 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Police state

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Under those circumstances a high suppression strategy will only prolong the agony. This, of course, was the original justification of the lockdown in March - we needed to 'flatten the curve' for three weeks to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed from an influx of patients that never occurred - but turning it into a semi-permanent state of affairs will only increase the overall number of deaths in the long term.

The East Asian nations you presume you refer to - Taiwan, Singapore - learned from their experience of SARS, slamming their borders shut and pursuing an aggressive contact tracing programme as soon as local cases appeared, which is something you could never do in a Western liberal democracy before it was already too late to be effective.

The primary reason why the death rates have been so high in certain Western countries is that they all failed to protect their elderly, emptying hospital wards and thus sending the transmission rate for those in residential care soaring, based on the mistaken assumption that COVID-19 would hospitalise a far broader age spectrum. We were preparing for the next 'flu pandemic rather than the next SARS outbreak. The median age of a swine flu victim in the UK was 39 - it's 82 for COVID-19.
The primary reason the death rates have been so high is because we let the virus spread out of control. It's the nature of Covid that the elderly are the ones most likely to die. Had East Asian countries (add Japan, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam and China ) to your list ! let is spread as freely as Western nations, they too would have tens of thousands of elderly dead - whether they were in care homes or not. There may well be reasons why the Asian approach was more effective (SARS experience, more collective societies) that does not concern the virus one jot. It could care less about Western liberal democracy, it simply wants to transmit. That gets back to the tradeoff: should we expend another 65,000 seniors so that freedom loving Brits can enjoy a pint and hit the gym? It's a discussion to be had.

Incidentally, and to clarify, I'm not arguing here for another full lockdown as we had in March. I'm suppoting the 2-3 week circuit breaker lockdown, as proposed by Sage. Interesting interview with Sir Jeremy today, who contends that the UK is currently at 50,000 cases per day and that such a lockdown to slow the spread is critical. On the positive side therapeutics are already available and an initial vaccine may be available in early 2021. Summary of the Sky interview below.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54592112





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