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Planet of the humans

Planet of the humans

Old Apr 30th 2020, 12:37 am
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Default Planet of the humans

Well, well, well. Finally someone from the left coming out and telling everyone what most of us on the right already knew. And surprise, surprise, finally acknowledgement that the elephant in the room is runaway population growth over the last century or so.

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Old Apr 30th 2020, 1:03 am
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Why do you think Michael Moore is "from the left"?

Anyway, perhaps you should temper your enthusiasm with facts.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ore-taken-down

"Michael Mann, a climate scientist and signatory to Fox’s letter, said the film includes “various distortions, half-truths and lies” and that the filmmakers “have done a grave disservice to us and the planet by promoting climate change inactivist tropes and talking points.”

https://grist.org/energy/michael-moo...-are-watching/

"The YouTube film is ostensibly about climate change, but in reality Gibbs spends most of the “documentary” — if you can even call it that — railing against the problems of renewable energy and spinning out conspiracy theories about Gore and other environmentalists. The handful of good points in the movie are largely drowned out by garbled science and hand-wringing over global population growth. It’s not that renewables don’t have any negative impacts on the environment; they do. But using that as a reason to abandon green energy sort of throws the baby out with the bathwater."


"Across the United States, about 40 percent of electricity is generated by renewables or nuclear energy — and comprehensive studies have shown that electric cars ultimately result in lower CO2 emissions. Gibbs either doesn’t know this or doesn’t care to point it out. Throughout the film, he overlooks substantive research, preferring to cherry-pick facts, make sweeping generalizations, and engineer “gotcha” moments on camera."

"The second half of the film is a jumbled and garbled set of conspiracy theories relating to the Koch brothers, the Sierra Club, Al Gore, and other prominent environmentalists. "

"The real problem, according to Gibbs, is the human race itself. “It’s not the carbon dioxide molecule destroying the planet,” he narrates. “It’s us.” He stops short of overtly advocating for population control, preferring to rail against human consumption in the abstract. Still, it gives the film a chilling undertone. "


Now, let's all guess which populations you want to control, eh? Good old "replacement theory".
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 5:27 am
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

The "left" is a derogatory term for anyone who holds views even vaguely contrary to what populists want to believe. AKA "liberal".

If you're not a populist, you're supposed to be offended by it. If you are a populist, it's a means to offend those who disagree with you.

Last edited by amideislas; Apr 30th 2020 at 5:32 am.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 7:28 am
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Why do you think Michael Moore is "from the left"?

Anyway, perhaps you should temper your enthusiasm with facts.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ore-taken-down

"Michael Mann, a climate scientist and signatory to Fox’s letter, said the film includes “various distortions, half-truths and lies” and that the filmmakers “have done a grave disservice to us and the planet by promoting climate change inactivist tropes and talking points.”

https://grist.org/energy/michael-moo...-are-watching/

"The YouTube film is ostensibly about climate change, but in reality Gibbs spends most of the “documentary” — if you can even call it that — railing against the problems of renewable energy and spinning out conspiracy theories about Gore and other environmentalists. The handful of good points in the movie are largely drowned out by garbled science and hand-wringing over global population growth. It’s not that renewables don’t have any negative impacts on the environment; they do. But using that as a reason to abandon green energy sort of throws the baby out with the bathwater."


"Across the United States, about 40 percent of electricity is generated by renewables or nuclear energy — and comprehensive studies have shown that electric cars ultimately result in lower CO2 emissions. Gibbs either doesn’t know this or doesn’t care to point it out. Throughout the film, he overlooks substantive research, preferring to cherry-pick facts, make sweeping generalizations, and engineer “gotcha” moments on camera."

"The second half of the film is a jumbled and garbled set of conspiracy theories relating to the Koch brothers, the Sierra Club, Al Gore, and other prominent environmentalists. "

"The real problem, according to Gibbs, is the human race itself. “It’s not the carbon dioxide molecule destroying the planet,” he narrates. “It’s us.” He stops short of overtly advocating for population control, preferring to rail against human consumption in the abstract. Still, it gives the film a chilling undertone. "


Now, let's all guess which populations you want to control, eh? Good old "replacement theory".
So, what did he say that is not true?

What is the "chilling undertone" other than what the writer claims? If anything, the chilling undertone is how fast global population growth has increased just in our lifetimes - and with no sign of it reducing anytime soon. The chilling undertone is what the current faux green energy push means for future generations, who have will have to face their seemingly unstoppable doom. The chilling undertone is you seem more concerned with pouring scorn over the film than considering the cold, hard and depressing truths that the film portrays. Likewise, your preference to make "replacement theory" remarks than to accept that ethical and responsible population reduction is needed. So much for you caring about the environment, huh? Interesting that you appear to support nuclear energy - if your quotes are anything to go by.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 9:40 am
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Why do you think Michael Moore is "from the left"?
Why do you think he isn't?
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 9:44 am
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Anyway, perhaps you should temper your enthusiasm with facts.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ore-taken-down

"Michael Mann, a climate scientist and signatory to Fox’s letter, said the film includes “various distortions, half-truths and lies” and that the filmmakers “have done a grave disservice to us and the planet by promoting climate change inactivist tropes and talking points.”
From the Guardian article:
A new Michael Moore-produced documentary that takes aim at the supposed hypocrisy of the green movement is “dangerous, misleading and destructive” and should be removed from public viewing, according to an assortment of climate scientists and environmental campaigners.

Planet of the Humans has provoked a furious reaction from scientists and campaigners, however, who have called for it be taken down.
Wow - that's not chillingly authoritarian is it?

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Old Apr 30th 2020, 12:51 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
From the Guardian article:

Wow - that's not chillingly authoritarian is it?
It's a difficult one isn't it?

The trouble is that idiots believe this stuff - whether it's people sticking lights up their arse or chugging domestos because a deranged ignoramus suggested it might be a good idea, to the nonsense churned out by Alex Jones, David Icke, or any number of quack snake-oil salesmen.

There are rules about misinformation in certain areas - for instance in the UK if you make a claim in an advertisement you must have firm evidence that the claim is justified.

Maybe this could be expanded into other areas.

Fake information is being removed from facebook now - and this is much the same.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Well, well, well. Finally someone from the left coming out and telling everyone what most of us on the right already knew. And surprise, surprise, finally acknowledgement that the elephant in the room is runaway population growth over the last century or so.
Obviously nobody is going to watch an hour and forty of what I presume is propaganda, but what's the gist then? Too many people?
What do they suggest as the solution?
I don't think many people could argue that population growth isn't harming the planet, but is that the motive for this - environmental change?
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Does anyone have the cliff notes so I can go off

Real talk though, Michael Moore is a radlib. He has some good takes from time to time and he's kind of left-adjacent but he's not exactly the spokesperson for world socialism or anything, he's just a filmmaker at the end of the day.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Does anyone have the cliff notes so I can go off

Real talk though, Michael Moore is a radlib. He has some good takes from time to time and he's kind of left-adjacent but he's not exactly the spokesperson for world socialism or anything, he's just a filmmaker at the end of the day.
And in this case, a pretty muddled film-maker. He's just hit on a formula, which he keeps repeating, from the GM film days.

Anyway, on the subject of reducing pollution and the need for cleaner energy.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...box=1588233450
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And in this case, a pretty muddled film-maker. He's just hit on a formula, which he keeps repeating, from the GM film days.

Anyway, on the subject of reducing pollution and the need for cleaner energy.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...box=1588233450
Fewer pollution related deaths is a great thing, but the morbitity of offsetting those 1,700 odd in the UK with the 26,000 rona deaths made my brain leak a bit
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
From the Guardian article:

Wow - that's not chillingly authoritarian is it?
Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
It's a difficult one isn't it?

The trouble is that idiots believe this stuff - whether it's people sticking lights up their arse or chugging domestos because a deranged ignoramus suggested it might be a good idea, to the nonsense churned out by Alex Jones, David Icke, or any number of quack snake-oil salesmen.

There are rules about misinformation in certain areas - for instance in the UK if you make a claim in an advertisement you must have firm evidence that the claim is justified.

Maybe this could be expanded into other areas.

Fake information is being removed from facebook now - and this is much the same.
That wasn't my recommendation. Censorship is hardly ever a good thing. But that doesn't mean that the rest of us should re-post garbage without any critical thinking at all
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Fewer pollution related deaths is a great thing, but the morbitity of offsetting those 1,700 odd in the UK with the 26,000 rona deaths made my brain leak a bit

Yeah, it's a pretty strange kind of maths. I think the only point is that it's pretty clear that there absolutely are things we can do to reduce our use and abuse of the planet. We just lack the political will (read "not lose the friendship of people making money off killing the planet") to change it. So far.

Oil prices have completely tanked because the usage has crashed and they haven't even got anywhere to put the stuff they are pumping out of the ground. What if we made that a permanent situation? And look how many powers are arrayed against that happening.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yeah, it's a pretty strange kind of maths. I think the only point is that it's pretty clear that there absolutely are things we can do to reduce our use and abuse of the planet. We just lack the political will (read "not lose the friendship of people making money off killing the planet") to change it. So far.
Just remember, those people you mentioned want the likes of you and me to die so they might not lose a few percentage points on their bottom line. We absolutely could reduce production (even if temporarily) to match the reduced level of consumption and those ****ers would still be rich beyond their wildest dreams. We need post ****ing scarcity now.

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Oil prices have completely tanked because the usage has crashed and they haven't even got anywhere to put the stuff they are pumping out of the ground. What if we made that a permanent situation? And look how many powers are arrayed against that happening.
I know there's an issue with pressure that means they can't just stop drilling altogether, but we need to get away from burning oil/petroleum to make things go anyway. But you know, muh special interests and muh lobbyists.
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Old Apr 30th 2020, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: Planet of the humans

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Just remember, those people you mentioned want the likes of you and me to die so they might not lose a few percentage points on their bottom line. We absolutely could reduce production (even if temporarily) to match the reduced level of consumption and those ****ers would still be rich beyond their wildest dreams. We need post ****ing scarcity now.



I know there's an issue with pressure that means they can't just stop drilling altogether, but we need to get away from burning oil/petroleum to make things go anyway. But you know, muh special interests and muh lobbyists.
Yes, I'm sure they can't just stop, but wells can be closed in an organized way. At the moment it's costing them money to pump because there's nowhere to put the stuff. If only we could decide that we could actually live without starting them all up again, and push our species to adapt. Adapters survive, the inflexible don't, in evolutionary terms.
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