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Open Borders ?

Open Borders ?

Old Jul 14th 2017, 5:38 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
There is no Immigration check at the start OR end of a flight wholly within Spain (Or anywhere within the Schengen area).

Passports are checked at check-in other than online check-in, and at the gate, to ensure the traveler's information matches the ones given at flight booking.
Sorry but everyone on that Nice to Barcelona flight went through the passport control/Immigration at Barcelona. It has also happened to us once on a Paris - Malaga flight.
The point about the burka'd passenger was that it could have been anyone under it, do you really trust the security or do you think it is an industry that is self propagating. We have had goods stolen during the security checks.
On an Italian Program, the investigators were able to access several Italian airports at all levels by studying them carefully or using info from staff, at times even with a fake gun.
Genova Airport was very good probably only 20 flights a day. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes to unload baggage from the plane, a short walk across the tarmac to the conveyors.
When it took this long you could be sure that there was nothing of value or sigarettes left in your baggage.
Turin airport, the guys used to throw passenger's baggage over the fence. They were caught but never sacked.
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Old Jul 14th 2017, 5:51 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by Maybe1day View Post
Sorry but everyone on that Nice to Barcelona flight went through the passport control/Immigration at Barcelona. It has also happened to us once on a Paris - Malaga flight.
The point about the burka'd passenger was that it could have been anyone under it, do you really trust the security or do you think it is an industry that is self propagating. We have had goods stolen during the security checks.
On an Italian Program, the investigators were able to access several Italian airports at all levels by studying them carefully or using info from staff, at times even with a fake gun.
Genova Airport was very good probably only 20 flights a day. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes to unload baggage from the plane, a short walk across the tarmac to the conveyors.
When it took this long you could be sure that there was nothing of value or sigarettes left in your baggage.
Turin airport, the guys used to throw passenger's baggage over the fence. They were caught but never sacked.
...... and the answer is????

All these things have been standard in travel before the terrorist threat, before the EU. Outting rules in place is pointless when they are not enforced or are just used as excuses.

A perfect example is the "new" fast-track security at Stansted airport. Whilst they can make extra money from offering a quicker route throug security if you pay, why should they improve the situation for those who don't??

There is no reasoon why an EU state cannot check documents - in most EU states you are required to have them on you at all times. But under Schenghen rules, it is not a requirement for travel. Therefore, not knowing the actual situation of your burka-wearing passenger, I can't comment, but it has nothing to do with immigration rules.
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Old Jul 14th 2017, 6:19 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
...... and the answer is????

All these things have been standard in travel before the terrorist threat, before the EU. Outting rules in place is pointless when they are not enforced or are just used as excuses.

A perfect example is the "new" fast-track security at Stansted airport. Whilst they can make extra money from offering a quicker route throug security if you pay, why should they improve the situation for those who don't??

There is no reasoon why an EU state cannot check documents - in most EU states you are required to have them on you at all times. But under Schenghen rules, it is not a requirement for travel. Therefore, not knowing the actual situation of your burka-wearing passenger, I can't comment, but it has nothing to do with immigration rules.
Either security is Good or forget, It's a business ever growing is it worth it?
As for the Burka I know it has nothing to do with immigration but it is a serious security problem to my mind..
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Old Jul 14th 2017, 6:30 pm
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by Maybe1day View Post
Sorry but everyone on that Nice to Barcelona flight went through the passport control/Immigration at Barcelona. It has also happened to us once on a Paris - Malaga flight.
The point about the burka'd passenger was that it could have been anyone under it, do you really trust the security or do you think it is an industry that is self propagating. We have had goods stolen during the security checks.
On an Italian Program, the investigators were able to access several Italian airports at all levels by studying them carefully or using info from staff, at times even with a fake gun.
Genova Airport was very good probably only 20 flights a day. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes to unload baggage from the plane, a short walk across the tarmac to the conveyors.
When it took this long you could be sure that there was nothing of value or sigarettes left in your baggage.
Turin airport, the guys used to throw passenger's baggage over the fence. They were caught but never sacked.
Since schengen, I have never, ever been subjected passport control on any intra-schengen flight. Ever. And I'm practically a "commuter". Me thinks you're stretching..

The one flaw with schengen is that there should be a single central border control agency that oversees and operates all external border controls much like in the US, rather than leaving it up to the whims of member states. But I reckon that's not far off.

Last edited by amideislas; Jul 14th 2017 at 6:40 pm.
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Old Jul 17th 2017, 3:47 pm
  #80  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

seems like we are not the only ones.......
https://travel.stackexchange.com/que...t-milan-flight
maybe they were stretching too or are you a stretcher case?
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Old Jul 17th 2017, 7:02 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

I have not read all the posts from the start but as it seems to be a debate about "open borders" I will add my bit,as I was involved in what I thought was a daft situation.Coming back from a coach trip from mostly eastern european countries,which was with a British company so we were all going back via Calais to Dover.Obviously the tour group had arranged a group booking on the ferry & had arranged for others on their coach tours from various other places to arrive at this point,so there were maybe over 200 or more of us waiting to go through British passport control.Having in the past never had to show my passport,just been given a flick of the hand,whenever entering Gibraltar(next time I shall hold up an aubergine as it is the same colour)I was not terribly surprised when a man from the ferry arrived & said in a loud voice,so many of us heard,"Look Mate,these people are booked to go & we have to sail on the tide"The gate was promptly opened & we all got on board on time.Obviously King Canute was not available.
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Old Jul 17th 2017, 10:50 pm
  #82  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
I have not read all the posts from the start but as it seems to be a debate about "open borders" I will add my bit,as I was involved in what I thought was a daft situation.Coming back from a coach trip from mostly eastern european countries,which was with a British company so we were all going back via Calais to Dover.Obviously the tour group had arranged a group booking on the ferry & had arranged for others on their coach tours from various other places to arrive at this point,so there were maybe over 200 or more of us waiting to go through British passport control.Having in the past never had to show my passport,just been given a flick of the hand,whenever entering Gibraltar(next time I shall hold up an aubergine as it is the same colour)I was not terribly surprised when a man from the ferry arrived & said in a loud voice,so many of us heard,"Look Mate,these people are booked to go & we have to sail on the tide"The gate was promptly opened & we all got on board on time.Obviously King Canute was not available.
"Give us back control of our borders!" they cried ...... and then what?
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 6:20 am
  #83  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Then give us back OUR laws!
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 9:16 am
  #84  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by Maybe1day View Post
Then give us back OUR laws!
So WE can ignore them, just like WE do now!

The UKs handling of border/immigration issues is pitiful - and that's nothing to do with the EU. Maybe living on an island makes it seem less necessary......
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 9:56 am
  #85  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
So WE can ignore them, just like WE do now!

The UKs handling of border/immigration issues is pitiful - and that's nothing to do with the EU. Maybe living on an island makes it seem less necessary......
Not having lived in the UK for 40 years means I'm a bit out of touch, however how about some examples?
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 10:14 am
  #86  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by Maybe1day View Post
Not having lived in the UK for 40 years means I'm a bit out of touch, however how about some examples?
I think "a bit out of touch" might be a bit of an understatement! The country you knew doesn't exist - just as the Ireland I left doesn't exist.

I'm an interested observer in all this - but I'll provide examples. I travel to Portugal at least 4 times a year, my Passport is never checked by anyone other than the flight crew on the way out (so, if you don't know who's leaving, you can't know any real figures). Yes, I do provide my passport details on confirming, but as the tickets are generally cheap I have probably missed at least half a dozen flights in the last few years... and if you think the systems are "clever" enough to note that I haven't actually left, you have greater faith than I do!

Secondly, if dougal03's story above is not an example, what is?

Thirdly, I live close to the coast in Suffolk. Yesterday a Dutch-registered boat arrived at the harbour. The crew got off and walked to the harbour office, nobody was there to escort them. This after THIS last September. There are many breweries in this area, but parties apparently need to be organized elsewhere!
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 11:50 am
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

To add to my last post-- another time my passport was stolen on route to UK,which I reported but the police told me to wait till I got back to Spain!Therefore I just decided to play stupid on the coach going back .When they said"everyone hold up your passport" I held up(what was then)my little plastic Residencia card.And arrived back without a further check.Have you also noticed how coaches so often leave the luggage bay wide open.I once pointed this out to an official at Gatwick Airport.He just shrugged,obviously not his problem if someone places a bomb in a closed bag & walks away.
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 12:18 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
Have you also noticed how coaches so often leave the luggage bay wide open.I once pointed this out to an official at Gatwick Airport.He just shrugged,obviously not his problem if someone places a bomb in a closed bag & walks away.
Funnily enough something similar crossed my mind recently at Victoria station when travelling by coach to visit my daughter in Cheltenham (never again !). There was a general unchecked loading free for all, anybody that way inclined could place a bag with timed bomb in the luggage bay, climb on board with a smaller bag and then disembark at the first stop leaving the bag in the hold. Boom.

Bus station security is not anywhere near the level of airports currently.
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 12:27 pm
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by iano View Post
Funnily enough something similar crossed my mind recently at Victoria station when travelling by coach to visit my daughter in Cheltenham (never again !). There was a general unchecked loading free for all, anybody that way inclined could place a bag with timed bomb in the luggage bay, climb on board with a smaller bag and then disembark at the first stop leaving the bag in the hold. Boom.

Bus station security is not anywhere near the level of airports currently.
..... so what would you do? How would you prevent the same scenario on a train, or a bus, or on a ferry, or in the "public" area of an airport, or any other place the public can access?

There is no answer via "restrictions", only via vigilance and education.
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Old Jul 18th 2017, 12:38 pm
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Default Re: Open Borders ?

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
..... so what would you do? How would you prevent the same scenario on a train, or a bus, or on a ferry, or in the "public" area of an airport, or any other place the public can access?

There is no answer via "restrictions", only via vigilance and education.
There is heightened vigilance in airport areas (unattended bags etc).

Was thinking similar routine to airport, I guess, check in baggage/tie in to passenger/scan. But you do have a point, it would be totally impractical on local bus services and trains, so yes, increased vigilance is probably the answer.
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