Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

Northern Ireland

Northern Ireland

Old Feb 25th 2007, 7:08 pm
  #241  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Godzone, utopia, Paradise Island under the sun.
Posts: 1,177
Lord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Exactly. Just as the majority in Northern Ireland do not want to be forcibly absorbed in to the Republic of Ireland.
If Irish Catholics one day made up 60% of Nth. Ireland and say 55% of them wanted the North to be joined to the South, therefore the majority of the population of Nth Ireland supports it would you also support it then?
Lord Pom Percy is offline  
Old Feb 25th 2007, 7:28 pm
  #242  
JAJ
Retired
 
JAJ's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
JAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond reputeJAJ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by Lord Pom Percy View Post
If Irish Catholics one day made up 60% of Nth. Ireland and say 55% of them wanted the North to be joined to the South, therefore the majority of the population of Nth Ireland supports it would you also support it then?
55% of 60% only comes to a vote total of 33%.
Assuming that Protestants and others in Northern Ireland would overwhelmingly support the Union, that would be nowhere near enough.

Clearly no-one is suggesting that Northern Ireland should stay British against its will. However, a vote of 50%+1 of those voting should not be sufficient for a fundamental, irreversible change of constitutional status.
JAJ is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:13 am
  #243  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 196
Guggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really nice
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by adiestubbs View Post
I think mistakes were made in the twenties and maybe there was a strong case for a united Ireland, but it didn't happen and who knows how the unionists would have reacted had it happened. We may well have seen innocent customers blown to smithereens in pub bombings in Cork (without warning) and Irish police and soldiers being killed on the Shankill Road (yes, i know about the Dublin bombings, pretty much a one off). The Irish economy was a shambles until recently and i cant see that they would have been able to contain over 1million angry protestants.
Back in the twenties, and even now, partition must surely have seemed a reasonable and equitable option.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to speculate that Ulster unionists, in the event of a united Ireland, would adopt the attitude that says 'Well, you guys did not, for the last 38 years, allow a stable Northern Ireland, so here's a wee bit of your own back, fellas'.
Guggler is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:21 am
  #244  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 196
Guggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really nice
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by adiestubbs View Post
Yes, absolutlely correct, unionists would be out-voted 4 or 5 to one. Gerry Adams has made a good point before, stating that unionists would be an influential 20% of a united ireland, whereas a the moment they are just a miniscule 2% of the UK. However, Northern Ireland is a reality and i back them as part of the UK as long as a majority want it.

Ade S
Auld Beardy Gerry is great with these 'photo-op' statements but, moments later off-camera, he lets us know with a smirk and only too clearly that he would have no time for us Brits in a united Ireland (he pays only lip service to 'equality of respect for cultural identity'). No, we're not buying it Gerry and we're not going away, you know. We've been there since the 5th century in the ancient kingdom of Dalriada and have every bit as much right to be there as youse yins, indeed more so where the ancient province of Ulster is concerned. Indeed, a case might be made that Unionists should be lobbying for the return of the three 'lost' counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal.

Last edited by Guggler; Feb 26th 2007 at 3:33 am.
Guggler is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:26 am
  #245  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 196
Guggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really nice
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
It is better to be a 2% minority in a country which shares one's fundamental social values and identity, as opposed to being a 20% minority in a foreign land.
Ulster unionists want nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland, other than the cultivation and maintenance of the kind of normal relations that should apply between two countries that share the same land border. So, shite on the 20%, we'll take the 2% any day.

Last edited by Guggler; Feb 26th 2007 at 3:34 am.
Guggler is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:28 am
  #246  
@matthewb76
 
Manc's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Manc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond reputeManc has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Northern Ireland

under EU laws those in the north that wish to live in a Republic of Ireland can do so legally by moving 50 miles south
Manc is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 9:00 am
  #247  
BE Enthusiast
 
adiestubbs's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Atwell, Double you A
Posts: 769
adiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to all
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by Manc View Post
under EU laws those in the north that wish to live in a Republic of Ireland can do so legally by moving 50 miles south
The most northerly part of the island of Ireland is in the Republic, so interestingly, those from Northern ireland can head north to the Republic. Not sure why they would, especially unionists anyways. And as they share a land border of about 200miles then they would only require to step over the border rather than travel the fifty miles.

Ade S
adiestubbs is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 9:07 am
  #248  
BE Enthusiast
 
adiestubbs's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Atwell, Double you A
Posts: 769
adiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to all
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Indeed, a case might be made that Unionists should be lobbying for the return of the three 'lost' counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal.
[/QUOTE]

But surely the reason that these parts of Ulster were not amalgamated into Northern Ireland originally still remain. That they have large catholic populations and small protestant populations. In fact, that would bring a united Ireland closer, because if they were, your majority would cease immediately and they coudl vote all nine counties into the Republic. Besides, im sure (quite rightly) that the Republic would resist. Im a unionist with a small "u" but i think it wiser to consolidate what you have at present!!

Ade S
adiestubbs is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 9:29 am
  #249  
BE Enthusiast
 
adiestubbs's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Atwell, Double you A
Posts: 769
adiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to all
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by Lord Pom Percy View Post
Could Irish nationalists organise lots of people in the south to immigrate to the North so lrish Catholics make the majority so the North could then become part of the south or would the Uk ban large numbers of Catholics immigrating to the North.

Actually, throughout the years many from the republic have travelled to Northern Ireland, almost all from the catholic nationalist or republican tradition. Ironically, they would have moved there seeking work in the more prosperous Northern Ireland because it was part of the UK, and thus recieved the work and social security benefits that go with being in the UK. But then, having arrived, most (but not all) would have probably voted for a united Ireland, Strange.

The following famous republicans not even from the island of Ireland

Hugh Doherty (glasgow)
Patrick Doherty (glasgow)
Seán Mac Stíofáin (born John Stephenson, London)

Sinn Fein Northern Ireland MEP not from Northern Ireland

Bairbre de Brún (or Barbara Brown, Dublin)
adiestubbs is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 2:53 pm
  #250  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,664
TrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond reputeTrishP has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Maybe take it as an opportunity to explain to them that Northern Ireland is British.
I can be asked many times on a daily basis about the fact that I'm 'Irish', Canadians don't hear my accent as being from ther North, they only hear Irish - it gets very wearing after a while, so it's easiest to agree. I do spend time trying to educate people who want to listen and learn, eg in one of the local schools I was asked to take part in the social studies module by coming into the school so the kids could ask me about where I grew up. However, for most of the locals here, it's the novelty factor of meeting someone from Ireland (they don't care what bit) and they aren't that interested in learning about the country and the politics. Canadians in general aren't that well informed as to what's going on outside their own country, so Ni is a dim and distant name to them only.

As I have the right, if I choose (and I haven't, so far, as I can't really be bothered than for any political reason), to get an Irish passport, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. NI's troubles have been perpetuated by people who insist on calling themselves one thing or the other - it truly doesn't matter and isn't relevant in the great scheme of life!
TrishP is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 2:56 pm
  #251  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 196
Guggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really nice
Default Re: Northern Ireland

But surely the reason that these parts of Ulster were not amalgamated into Northern Ireland originally still remain. That they have large catholic populations and small protestant populations. In fact, that would bring a united Ireland closer, because if they were, your majority would cease immediately and they coudl vote all nine counties into the Republic. Besides, im sure (quite rightly) that the Republic would resist. Im a unionist with a small "u" but i think it wiser to consolidate what you have at present!!

Ade S[/QUOTE]


You're absolutely correct, of course. I was just making the point, albeit tongue-in-cheek and a bit facetiously, that when it comes to making territorial claims, two can play at that game.
Guggler is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:01 pm
  #252  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Auchtermuchty
Posts: 196
Guggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really niceGuggler is just really nice
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by adiestubbs View Post
Actually, throughout the years many from the republic have travelled to Northern Ireland, almost all from the catholic nationalist or republican tradition. Ironically, they would have moved there seeking work in the more prosperous Northern Ireland because it was part of the UK, and thus recieved the work and social security benefits that go with being in the UK. But then, having arrived, most (but not all) would have probably voted for a united Ireland, Strange.

The following famous republicans not even from the island of Ireland

Hugh Doherty (glasgow)
Patrick Doherty (glasgow)
Seán Mac Stíofáin (born John Stephenson, London)
Sinn Fein Northern Ireland MEP not from Northern Ireland

Bairbre de Brún (or Barbara Brown, Dublin)
Boy, did we ever get a right laugh back in the seventies when yon fella Stephenson, complete with an obvious London accent, was trying hard to come up with a southern brogue. Priceless!!
Guggler is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 3:58 pm
  #253  
BE Enthusiast
 
adiestubbs's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Atwell, Double you A
Posts: 769
adiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to alladiestubbs is a name known to all
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Originally Posted by Guggler View Post
Boy, did we ever get a right laugh back in the seventies when yon fella Stephenson, complete with an obvious London accent, was trying hard to come up with a southern brogue. Priceless!!
There are different debates about his past. Some say his mother was an "irish" protestant from Belfast, others that he had absolutley no irish connections whatsoever.
adiestubbs is offline  
Old Feb 26th 2007, 10:19 pm
  #254  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Godzone, utopia, Paradise Island under the sun.
Posts: 1,177
Lord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to beholdLord Pom Percy is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Anyone see the film the Wind that shakes the Barley, those Black Tan British soldiers were very brutal.
Lord Pom Percy is offline  
Old Feb 27th 2007, 11:40 am
  #255  
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 34
Slam Thunderhide has a spectacular aura aboutSlam Thunderhide has a spectacular aura aboutSlam Thunderhide has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Northern Ireland

Having grown up in Belfast and experienced sectarianism first hand i realise there is no quick fix solution. I find the older i get the more wearisome become the arguments.All the opinions expressed on this thread are valid no matter which side you are looking from.I know only two things for sure,the solution to the Irish problem will never be found at the end of an Armalite (i had eight long years to think about it) and Ireland will be one nation some day,it is inevitable.
Slam Thunderhide is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.