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Labour on the fence

Labour on the fence

Old Sep 21st 2019, 1:41 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post

I was just reading that this morning. The deputy leader thing seems to have been quashed for now, but it is amusing to read about Deutsche Bank hoping for a Corbyn win.

I also noted this:

"This air of solidity is not a complete illusion. Since Corbyn took over Labour, the Tories and Liberal Democrats have each had three leaders. Meanwhile Labour’s policies – relentlessly dismissed as weird and naive by newspapers that saw no downsides to austerity and Brexit – have in fact often carefully gone with the grain of public opinion: renationalise the railways, raise taxes on the rich, put more police on the streets, avoid fighting foreign wars that lead to terrorism."

Can Labour conquer the propaganda-led fascination with what this article calls this "cartoonish premiership"? I hope so
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 2:29 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

This is the endless conundrum, isn't it?

People seem to be so easily distracted by the constant negative barrage pumped out against Mr Corbyn as leader that they don't consider his achievements in the role or the greater importance of the party's actual policies and where they fit in with the public's desires. It seems much easier to accept and repeat the sort of rubbish that floats around about his intellectual abilities or his capability of running sweet stalls or whatever than to look properly at what's been happening over the past months and years.

Besides which, Labour's magnificent transformation goes a damned sight deeper than the person who leads them right now.
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
This is the endless conundrum, isn't it?

People seem to be so easily distracted by the constant negative barrage pumped out against Mr Corbyn as leader that they don't consider his achievements in the role or the greater importance of the party's actual policies and where they fit in with the public's desires. It seems much easier to accept and repeat the sort of rubbish that floats around about his intellectual abilities or his capability of running sweet stalls or whatever than to look properly at what's been happening over the past months and years.

Besides which, Labour's magnificent transformation goes a damned sight deeper than the person who leads them right now.
When you read their actual policy platforms, there doesn't seem to be much for "ordinary people" to dislike. Rather the contrary. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would choose the current Tory cabal's self-interested and destructive behaviour.

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 2:46 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
This is the endless conundrum, isn't it?

People seem to be so easily distracted by the constant negative barrage pumped out against Mr Corbyn as leader that they don't consider his achievements in the role or the greater importance of the party's actual policies and where they fit in with the public's desires. It seems much easier to accept and repeat the sort of rubbish that floats around about his intellectual abilities or his capability of running sweet stalls or whatever than to look properly at what's been happening over the past months and years.

Besides which, Labour's magnificent transformation goes a damned sight deeper than the person who leads them right now.
At least, he hangs on in there and one has to believe he is (sort of) popular within the party.
Lib Dems and Cons are both on their 3rd leader since 2015 (Year Corbyn was elected).
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
At least, he hangs on in there and one has to believe he is (sort of) popular within the party.
Lib Dems and Cons are both on their 3rd leader since 2015 (Year Corbyn was elected).
Putin shows remarkable staying power too.
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Old Sep 21st 2019, 8:55 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

People,this is not the moment for in-fighting. At least I don't think it is, it's hard to be sure really.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...atson-unfolded

Could they not wait until they have government secured at least?
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Old Sep 22nd 2019, 4:55 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
On the contrary, as far as I'm concerned. I only brought those quotes up because they show that as far as his personal opinions go, Corbyn has been absolutely clear and unequivocal and that his own assessment of his enthusiasm for the EU is probably not a great deal astray of what many another remainer would mark themselves. And because his personal views were the specific topic of a question.

75/25 or 70/30 would have counted as a thumping victory in any referendum so let's not be too keen to promote that as lukewarm, nor to present it as Labour's position when it was actually made perfectly clear that it was a personal opinion. It was under somewhat different circumstances but he wasn't even then trying to score any political points, merely giving what I see as a straight and honest opinion to direct questions (something others were declining to do at that time, so all credit to him considering the continual fire he was being subjected to).
Undeniably agreeable and fair comments.

I disagree, respectfully, that clearing up Corbyn's own views isn't giving clarity on where the whole party are aiming to go. Perhaps the conference will clear that up...?
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Undeniably agreeable and fair comments.

I disagree, respectfully, that clearing up Corbyn's own views isn't giving clarity on where the whole party are aiming to go. Perhaps the conference will clear that up...?
More fence-sitting by the looks of it.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 8:04 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

When the remain motion fell, many stood and cheered, and broke into a chorus of “oh, Jeremy Corbyn”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ampaign-brexit
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 8:32 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

So, assuming a GE, Labour wins (small majority) and then negotiates a BRINO, there's a possibility that that gets rejected by the public/Parliament is there not?
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 8:49 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
So, assuming a GE, Labour wins (small majority) and then negotiates a BRINO, there's a possibility that that gets rejected by the public/Parliament is there not?
By then, even the Economic Ruin Group will be reduced to joining the DUP in whimpering that leaving is far worse than remaining as we are.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:16 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
More fence-sitting by the looks of it.

Looks like an election strategy to me. Given the divsions in the country and amongst Labour voters, he may well not be wrong.

One in, he is committed to a)attempting a deal which may or may not be approved by Parliament and b)a new referendum to include both the potential new WA and the Remain options.

If it gets rid of the cabal currently "running" the country, I'll take it thank you very much.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
By then, even the Economic Ruin Group will be reduced to joining the DUP in whimpering that leaving is far worse than remaining as we are.
Jezza's strategy does not seem well thought out.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:19 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Looks like an election strategy to me. Given the divsions in the country and amongst Labour voters, he may well not be wrong.

One in, he is committed to a)attempting a deal which may or may not be approved by Parliament and b)a new referendum to include both the potential new WA and the Remain options.

If it gets rid of the cabal currently "running" the country, I'll take it thank you very much.
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Jezza's strategy does not seem well thought out.

Not sure about that either.

Not sure about anything very much. But I can see that he does not want to split the Labour vote.
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Old Sep 23rd 2019, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Looks like an election strategy to me. Given the divsions in the country and amongst Labour voters, he may well not be wrong.

One in, he is committed to a)attempting a deal which may or may not be approved by Parliament and b)a new referendum to include both the potential new WA and the Remain options.

If it gets rid of the cabal currently "running" the country, I'll take it thank you very much.
Yet it could lead to the impasse lasting another 9 months, and by that point the EU will probably not offer further extensions and the ERG will get their dasterdly way.
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