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Labour on the fence

Labour on the fence

Old Sep 11th 2019, 10:53 am
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Default Labour on the fence

We have 'Tories in chaos' but there's an ongoing Labour dimension to this Brexit debate. It seems that despite the madness of the last fortnight, Comrade Corbyn can still not get of the fence. Today Tom Watson has come out and said Labour needs to unequivocally support Remain and a referendum. Starmer and Thornberry keep trying to avoid walking on Corbyn eggshells in this regard, but Watson has a point. Labour really should be decided by this point in time. Is it any wonder that Jo Swinson is hesitant to have Corbyn lead a Remain alliance?
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:04 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
We have 'Tories in chaos' but there's an ongoing Labour dimension to this Brexit debate. It seems that despite the madness of the last fortnight, Comrade Corbyn can still not get of the fence. Today Tom Watson has come out and said Labour needs to unequivocally support Remain and a referendum. Starmer and Thornberry keep trying to avoid walking on Corbyn eggshells in this regard, but Watson has a point. Labour really should be decided by this point in time. Is it any wonder that Jo Swinson is hesitant to have Corbyn lead a Remain alliance?
Watson should resign, he has done nothing but work against Corbyn since he was appointed as deputy, he goes missing at crucial times, there have been petitions of members to get him to resign or be sacked, there are many others in the party who would make a better deputy, Laura Piddock and Keith Starmer to name but two.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:06 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
Watson should resign, he has done nothing but work against Corbyn since he was appointed as deputy, he goes missing at crucial times, there have been petitions of members to get him to resign or be sacked, there are many others in the party who would make a better deputy, Laura Piddock and Keith Starmer to name but two.
Corbyn must have some faith in him to appoint him deputy? He seems a good moderating force to me.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:19 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
Watson should resign, he has done nothing but work against Corbyn since he was appointed as deputy, he goes missing at crucial times, there have been petitions of members to get him to resign or be sacked, there are many others in the party who would make a better deputy, Laura Piddock and Keith Starmer to name but two.
I think Corbyn should resign. It's becoming obvious that he's not capable of leading a party, let alone a country.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:38 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
We have 'Tories in chaos' but there's an ongoing Labour dimension to this Brexit debate. It seems that despite the madness of the last fortnight, Comrade Corbyn can still not get of the fence. Today Tom Watson has come out and said Labour needs to unequivocally support Remain and a referendum. Starmer and Thornberry keep trying to avoid walking on Corbyn eggshells in this regard, but Watson has a point. Labour really should be decided by this point in time. Is it any wonder that Jo Swinson is hesitant to have Corbyn lead a Remain alliance?
Talking about Jo Swinson, I'm disappointed she isn't pushing herself more to the fore. It seems to me she's missing an opportunity what with the Tories and Labour being such a mess. We really haven't seen much of her.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Talking about Jo Swinson, I'm disappointed she isn't pushing herself more to the fore. It seems to me she's missing an opportunity what with the Tories and Labour being such a mess. We really haven't seen much of her.
She's doing her best at trying to get to the fore. It's the media and public that marginalise her because of the FPTP system. She's been very vocal on forming an alliance. Follow her on Twitter and you'll get a better idea of what she's up to.
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Old Sep 11th 2019, 1:24 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Corbyn must have some faith in him to appoint him deputy? He seems a good moderating force to me.
He's not appointed by Corbyn - the deputy position is voted for by Labour members.
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Old Sep 18th 2019, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Where's ERIC on this thread? Is Corbyn's strategy to call for a referendum but be publically neutral on the question a bit mad ?
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Old Sep 18th 2019, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Where's ERIC on this thread? Is Corbyn's strategy to call for a referendum but be publically neutral on the question a bit mad ?
No, he has promised to give the public the final vote. If he gets elected as PM, then he will go to the EU with his proposals, which he has already been in discussion with them about, then he will offer the public the chance to vote on Brexit with his agreed deal or remain, but he will not try to influence the vote.
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Old Sep 18th 2019, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
No, he has promised to give the public the final vote. If he gets elected as PM, then he will go to the EU with his proposals, which he has already been in discussion with them about, then he will offer the public the chance to vote on Brexit with his agreed deal or remain, but he will not try to influence the vote.
That's six one way, half a dozen the other. The gist of my question remains.
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Old Sep 18th 2019, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's six one way, half a dozen the other. The gist of my question remains.
It's letting the public, well those that bother to turn out and vote, have the final say.
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Old Sep 18th 2019, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
It's letting the public, well those that bother to turn out and vote, have the final say.
I know, but the question is should Corbyn not make his own views known, I mean as leader! Even his taxi driver makes his views known. And Corbyn will be behind the negotiated deal. How do we know if he thinks his deal is any good or not? He really is hopeless, old Jezza. Bring in Kier before it's too late.
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Old Sep 19th 2019, 7:43 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Where's ERIC on this thread?
Who - me?
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Is Corbyn's strategy to call for a referendum but be publically neutral on the question a bit mad ?
No, I don't think so.
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I know, but the question is should Corbyn not make his own views known, I mean as leader! Even his taxi driver makes his views known. And Corbyn will be behind the negotiated deal. How do we know if he thinks his deal is any good or not? He really is hopeless, old Jezza. Bring in Kier before it's too late.
Poor Jeremy, can't ever get anything right.

We should already know what he thinks, seeing as he's told the entire world. You'd have thought, in an age where a single badly-worded pronouncement can lurk around forever to haunt and possibly destroy, that recent-ish statements would be more prominent in peoples' minds. Here's a reminder :

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10.
He explained that he wanted to be part of an EU that was about "social cohesion" and "human rights"
Corbyn: I'm 'seven out of 10' on EU (June 2016)

Asked if he would vote remain if a new referendum were held tomorrow, Corbyn replied: “There isn’t going to be another referendum, so it’s a hypothetical question but yes, I voted remain because I thought the best option was to remain. I haven’t changed my mind on that"
Jeremy Corbyn says he would vote remain in a second EU referendum (October 2017)

However, given that everything he says is liable to misinterpretation and deliberate distortion, perhaps he's decided the wisest thing is to let the party officially campaign to remain while he himself keeps schtum. He is, after all, merely the leader and not by any means the sole arbiter of policy even though he's often portrayed as such. I imagine he can foresee only too well the line that would be taken if he was at the helm during a negotiation for something he later personally recommended rejecting

Labour's come a long, long way. They've now conceded to pretty much all of the early calls for the matter to be returned to the public prior to the implementation of anything and are now in a position behind which all the parties unequivocally opposed to Brexit can unite, without abandoning those who want to leave but don't want the dirty bomb Brexit or May's disastrous agreement.
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Old Sep 19th 2019, 8:44 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Who - me?

No, I don't think so.

Poor Jeremy, can't ever get anything right.

We should already know what he thinks, seeing as he's told the entire world. You'd have thought, in an age where a single badly-worded pronouncement can lurk around forever to haunt and possibly destroy, that recent-ish statements would be more prominent in peoples' minds. Here's a reminder :


Corbyn: I'm 'seven out of 10' on EU (June 2016)


Jeremy Corbyn says he would vote remain in a second EU referendum (October 2017)

However, given that everything he says is liable to misinterpretation and deliberate distortion, perhaps he's decided the wisest thing is to let the party officially campaign to remain while he himself keeps schtum. He is, after all, merely the leader and not by any means the sole arbiter of policy even though he's often portrayed as such. I imagine he can foresee only too well the line that would be taken if he was at the helm during a negotiation for something he later personally recommended rejecting

Labour's come a long, long way. They've now conceded to pretty much all of the early calls for the matter to be returned to the public prior to the implementation of anything and are now in a position behind which all the parties unequivocally opposed to Brexit can unite, without abandoning those who want to leave but don't want the dirty bomb Brexit or May's disastrous agreement.

Good to be reminded of what he has actually said... without the incessant distortions of the hysterical Tories whenever he attempts to open his mouth... I am sure that after the long and relentless campaign by them to paint him as the 'devil himself',he sees the futility of trying to scrape any of that mud off himself, and prefers to leave any statements of intent to the party.It makes him a neutered leader imo...It is a pity that the Tories have been so effective in silencing any oposition during this harrowing three years of political torment instigated by them, and I am talking about all other parties here. When you become a one party country, you are effectively in a dictatorship. I don't feel that Labour has it in them to return to the days when they actually represented the working class's. Those 'class's' have largely gone now, to be replaced by the lower paid, immigrant ,old, infirm and poor. who generally have no voice..If they can't speak to them they are done as a party
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Old Sep 19th 2019, 8:54 am
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Default Re: Labour on the fence

Thanks Eric. It seems to be an 'up to you strategy's and I don't think the electorate will get very excited by it's nonchalant tone. Leavers will hate it as it's giving them a false choice between Remain and 'for all intents and purposes Remain'. At least the LD position is unequivocal. I have a feeling that Jezza's indecisive ploy will backfire and allow the Tory's to reclaim the argument. Andrew Neil was incredulous about it last night on his new show, it makes very little sense.
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