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It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Old May 19th 2013, 4:22 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I did!

I also did a 2 day pistol course, actually much more effort than I put in for my US Driving License.
Excellent.
So now you're all tooled up and ready to be a good man with a gun! I'm expecting reports of plummeting crime rates in Boulder and its envvirons

I spent all day with one of the (ex)NRA guys in my sons Scout Troop. Whole day on gun safety with a bunch of 11-15 year olds and I can honestly say I have never seen such a focused bunch of kids, even though they knew they wouldn't be shooting anything today. Of course, the trick is transferring that from the classroom to the real world, but they're getting a good grounding..especially my son, in something I cannot give him. The teacher was actually highly critical of the NRA's approach, and very supportive of the recent failed efforts to try to improve things. Wish there were more like him in positions of influence in the gun lobby....
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Old May 19th 2013, 4:27 am
  #272  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Some of you folks really need to learn about the concept of marginal cost.

Perhaps an analogy will help:

-Most cigarette smokers will not get lung cancer. (In the US, the rate is about 15%, if I recall correctly.)

-Avoiding smoking does not guarantee that one will avoid lung cancer. (If memory serves, this rate among non-smokers is about 1-2%.)

Does smoking make cancer a certainty? No.

Do non-smokers automatically get to avoid lung cancer? No.

But do smokers get lung cancer at higher rates? Without a doubt.

Can anyone with a functioning brain stem reasonably argue that cigarettes don't increase the odds of getting lung cancer? No.

Given this series of facts, is smoking a great idea? No.

Can anyone support the position that smoking isn't bad for you? No.

When cigarettes are used as intended, do more smokers die? Absolutely.
Cigarettes and guns aren't comparable. You need to find a better metaphor.

Oh, and BTW, I know plenty about marginal cost but I can't see any connection between marginal cost and your "analogy".

Last edited by Pulaski; May 19th 2013 at 4:36 am.
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Old May 19th 2013, 4:32 am
  #273  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
.... much more effort than I put in for my US Driving License.
Colorado driver's licenses require "effort"?
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Old May 19th 2013, 5:03 am
  #274  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
BTW, I know plenty about marginal cost
Apparently not.

I really shouldn't have to explain this, but I'll try again.

Your point about the percentage of guns that are used to kill is irrelevant and wrong, just as it would be irrelevant and wrong to argue that cigarettes are a safe product because the vast majority can't be traced to cases of lung cancer.

The issue isn't over the percentage of guns that are misused. The issue is what happens to a society when guns are added to it.

We sure as hell knows what happens Americans get guns -- more of them kill each other. The fact that most guns don't end up killing anyone isn't the point.
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Old May 19th 2013, 5:36 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post

The issue isn't over the percentage of guns that are misused. The issue is what happens to a society when guns are added to it.

We sure as hell knows what happens Americans get guns -- more of them kill each other. The fact that most guns don't end up killing anyone isn't the point.
This.
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Old May 19th 2013, 5:40 am
  #276  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Apparently not.

I really shouldn't have to explain this, but I'll try again.

Your point about the percentage of guns that are used to kill is irrelevant and wrong, just as it would be irrelevant and wrong to argue that cigarettes are a safe product because the vast majority can't be traced to cases of lung cancer.

The issue isn't over the percentage of guns that are misused. The issue is what happens to a society when guns are added to it.

We sure as hell knows what happens Americans get guns -- more of them kill each other. The fact that most guns don't end up killing anyone isn't the point.
All cigarette smoke is harmful.

Well unless you do not inhale...
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Old May 19th 2013, 5:52 am
  #277  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I am going to guess an autoloader.

I know one person who has a Class 2 FFL, otherwise you are looking at pre 1986? and beacoup dosh.
http://031d26d.namesecurehost.com/gu...res/akcopy.htm
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Old May 19th 2013, 5:52 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
All cigarette smoke is harmful.

Well unless you do not inhale...
Not everyone who smokes gets cancer, or even ill. Tobacco still kills though.

Ditto guns.

Especially in this country.
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:05 am
  #279  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not everyone who smokes gets cancer, or even ill. Tobacco still kills though.

Ditto guns.

Especially in this country.
It's funny how well pro-gun arguments and a lack of understanding of statistical analysis go hand in hand.
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:15 am
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
It's funny how well pro-gun arguments and a lack of understanding of statistical analysis go hand in hand.
It's the logical fallacies that get me. Too many in this country seem to be emotionally attached to being armed to the teeth and seek to rationalize their feelings, which must be exactly the wrong reason to be armed.
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:27 am
  #281  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

So which one is an assault rifle?

They seem semi automatic rifles firing the .22LR.
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:29 am
  #282  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not everyone who smokes gets cancer, or even ill.
I never said they did, any smoking is however bad for you, unlike say the odd glass of red wine.
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:37 am
  #283  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
any smoking is however bad for you
Statistically speaking, that isn't true at all.

And yet, despite the fact that most individual cigarettes won't kill anyone, the fact remains that smoking is still bad for you when you consider all of the data.

Are you starting to get it?
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Old May 19th 2013, 6:39 am
  #284  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It's the logical fallacies that get me. Too many in this country seem to be emotionally attached to being armed to the teeth and seek to rationalize their feelings, which must be exactly the wrong reason to be armed.
It's all part of an effort to prove that Americans don't do irony. (Well, a lot of us don't, anyway...)
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Old May 19th 2013, 7:06 am
  #285  
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Default Re: It's not just about guns, it's about the person holding the weapon

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP View Post
Statistically speaking, that isn't true at all.

And yet, despite the fact that most individual cigarettes won't kill anyone, the fact remains that smoking is still bad for you when you consider all of the data.

Are you starting to get it?
I get that first you disagree with me, and then you re state what I said.

Weird.
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